Iowa girl suspended for empty shotgun shell at school

[tlgpa]

Originally Posted by mjfletcher

The schools policies prohibit ammunition and make no distinction between live and non-live nor provide any exceptions/exemptions.

I don't think it's that clear. What she had was a hull. I wouldn't consider that ammunition, live or non-live.

am·mu·ni·tion
NOUN:
Projectiles, such as bullets and shot, together with their fuses and primers, that can be fired from guns or otherwise propelled.

Without pellets, primer, and powder, it's not a shell or ammunition.

And that's the problem with zero tolerance and not a clear definition of what's expected. This is why we have kids not realizing chicken and shotgun hulls are considered weapons.

[Paradigm]

Originally Posted by tlgpa

This is why we have kids not realizing chicken and shotgun hulls are considered weapons.

And worse: we have a generation of kids who don't know how to act around firearms. If chicken nugget = handgun, then how do we expect kids to behave around the handgun if they come across one?

[NevynPA]

Originally Posted by Paradigm

And worse: we have a generation of kids who don't know how to act around firearms. If chicken nugget = handgun, then how do we expect kids to behave around the handgun if they come across one?

Dip it in their choice of condiment and take a bite?

[mjfletcher]

Originally Posted by tlgpa

I don't think it's that clear. What she had was a hull. I wouldn't consider that ammunition, live or non-live.

am·mu·ni·tion
NOUN:
Projectiles, such as bullets and shot, together with their fuses and primers, that can be fired from guns or otherwise propelled.

Without pellets, primer, and powder, it's not a shell or ammunition.

And that's the problem with zero tolerance and not a clear definition of what's expected. This is why we have kids not realizing chicken and shotgun hulls are considered weapons.

A Des Moines, Iowa, girl who brought an empty shotgun shell to school...

...It was empty and had the word "blank" written on the front.

Is a shotgun shell ammunition? Yes.
If the shell is empty is it live ammunition? No.
Does the schools policy provide an exception for nonfireable ammunition? No.

Whether its live or a nonfireable blank its still ammunition, and if the policy says no ammunition then it makes no difference whether its live or not because its still ammunition. Sitting here saying "well the policy doesn't state that it applies to all ammunition including blank" and using any and every word immaginable to say "blank ammunition" without using the word "ammunition" is what's complicating the issue. If the policy that prohibits ammunition was intended t not include nonfireable ammunition it would have an exception for that, with no exception for it that means nonfireable ammo is included.

You've unintentionally provided another perfect example of the hypocracy I've referenced in the past. We condemn the anti's for playing word games by using inaccurate descriptions to scare people into supporting their agenda, yet here we are calling nonfireable ammunition by every word but ammunition in an attempt to garner support for our side.

[tlgpa]

Originally Posted by Paradigm

If chicken nugget = handgun, then how do we expect kids to behave around the handgun if they come across one?

They may try to eat it!

Worse yet, I don't want my kids growing up thinking that if someone trys to kill them or cause serious bodily injury, they can defend themselves with a chicken nugget.

Well, perhaps one from McDonalds would work.

[Paradigm]

Originally Posted by NevynPA

Dip it in their choice of condiment and take a bite?

Originally Posted by tlgpa

They may try to eat it!

Worse yet, I don't want my kids growing up thinking that if someone trys to kill them or cause serious bodily injury, they can defend themselves with a chicken nugget.

Well, perhaps one from McDonalds would work.

I love the humor.


I'm concerned that kids today have an insanely "fuzzy" understanding of guns. What they are, how they work, what they do... Heck, how many adults fit into this category? And lots of them have children. Egads.

[Pa. Patriot]

An empty shotshell hull is neither a weapon nor ammunition.

Just like a holster is not a weapon, a picture of a gun is not a weapon and the word "playboy" is not pornography.

[cgbudde]

If you really want to be an bastard. Go to your next school board meeting and tell them that a pencil can be used as a deadly weapon, and you demand that they are prohibited in schools. I for one would not want my child around these dangerous weapons, especially in the hands of crazy irresponsible children. Hey whats fair is fair right.

[1861]

It looked like a key chain to me ; not ammo.

[tlgpa]

Originally Posted by mjfletcher

You've unintentionally provided another perfect example of the hypocracy I've referenced in the past. We condemn the anti's for playing word games by using inaccurate descriptions to scare people into supporting their agenda, yet here we are calling nonfireable ammunition by every word but ammunition in an attempt to garner support for our side.

On the contrary, I'm using an ACCURATE description. Calling a shotgun hull ammunition is an inaccurate description.

An engine is an engine.
A tire is a tire.
A seat is a seat.
Together they can make a car. Alone they are not a car.