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  #11 (permalink)  
Old November 13th, 2009, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

I have used slaps often in attempting to gain control of someone in a close setting, such as a Nightclub. It also appears that you are using less force to onlookers. If one has to testify as to the use of force, stating that you used a slap instead of a punch can be viewed as more controlled.

I saw my Father turn some guys lights off on Germantown Ave nearly 30 years ago. A man threatened, and charged at, my Father over a parking issue. A hearty slap just under his left ear literally turned him off as if a switch was thrown. One of the best lessons you could demonstrate to a 10 yo. It is the gift that keeps on giving

Be safe (and smackem' if ya' can).

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old November 13th, 2009, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

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Originally Posted by mercop View Post

Upon contact it will overload all the nerves of the face, the eyes will involuntarily close as the head snaps back at a 45 degree angle. This is the Central Nervous Systems disruption, not only is the brain being over loaded by the sting of the slap, but the brain, and Ocular nerves are also being violently smashed into/towards the side of the skull.
I'm fine with the balance of your post -- you can certainly set someone back with a hard and unexpected slap the face and it's a great way to get a second or so's worth of pause out of someone as an opening strike -- but your physiology is off.

The blink is going to happen with any facial strike. You're not "disrupting" the CNS -- the brain and spinal cord -- you're getting the most sensible evolved reaction to a potentially harmful stimulus. It's not that the slap is disrupting everything, it's creating a reaction the evolved to evade/minimize damage. The target's eyes are going to shut if he perceives the strike is imminent.

You're also not causing substantial movement of the brain within the skull -- the meninges are incredibly effective as anchors. The dura mater and arachnoid membrane together can keep your brain from moving relative to the skull under all but the most substantial decelerative force (a quick 60-0 car crash, would give you a nice little concussion just from brain deceleration alone, your head doesn't need to contact a thing).

The optic nerves (I assume by ocular nerve you mean the second cranial nerve) are also way too deep within the brain to upset with the kind of contact you're talking about. If you mean the oculomotor nerves (the ones that control your blink), it'll trigger once the target believes he's going to get hit in the face but, again, it's buried too deep to physically upset with a slap.

Basically, by the above I mean that you're not violently moving or disrupting the brain or any deep nerves, you're triggering a defense mechanism.

Quote:

Structural System disruption is being achieved by the cervical vertebrae being instantly squeezed together. As the head moves back and to the side, the body is taken off center and your attackers base is destroyed, if only for a second. Using your hands large surface area to the target rich area of the face/neck increases the likely hood of either striking the Vegus Nerve, which provides information about the state of the body's organs to the Central Nervous System, or the Baroreceptor which serves as your body's thermostat.
If you mean disruption by setting someone off balance for a second, sure, that happens with any decent head strike -- but you're not causing any real disruption, just the pause that comes from having mass (the head of the target) moved off center. And that's going to depend what kind of stance the target is in, anyway. If he's balanced against the direction of the slap, you're not going to do anything. Ditto if he's starts to step back as you hit.

Regarding the vagus nerve (I assume that's what you meant by vegus): you're not going to hit it with a slap -- too deep again. And the larger the contact patch, the less likely you are to go deep. You're probably not even going to hit it unless you get a perfect (and hard) shot in with a knuckle strike. And even then, most of the function of the vagus is conveying information to the brain, not from it.

I suppose I have two points to the above rambling: First, you're going to get the physical reaction you're talking about. The target is going to blink, flinch, pause for a moment if you get in a good slap. Possibly even more than a punch of equivalent force, if for no reason other than that a slap is much more of a surprise than a punch, and because of the surface area you're likely to get more of an instinct to protect the eyes. Second, the above isn't happening because if disruption, shock, or even potential damage -- you're activating a defensive mechanism.

Ok, I lied, two more points. You reference making contact with the baroreceptor. There isn't "a" baroreceptor -- they're disperse sensors throughout the blood vessels in the body. There's not one to hit in particular or that could be targeted. I suppose you could, theoretically, trigger the baroreflex and cause the heart to skip a beat or momentarily change the targets blood pressure with a hard enough shot somewhere on the body, but you couldn't target it.

Anyway, nice post, and definitely something to think about adding to the bag of tricks.
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Old November 13th, 2009, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

Fuck a slap,,,, throat punch is where it's at!
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Old November 13th, 2009, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

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Fuck a slap,,,, throat punch is where it's at!
if the guy is dumb enough to expose his throat...

though many probably are.
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Old November 13th, 2009, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

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Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
if the guy is dumb enough to expose his throat...

though many probably are.
I would think it would be "if the guy isnt trained or experianced enough to protect his throat".



been a long time since I was in a real fight.

although a new piece of head gear just came in my mail the other day, and I have forearm pads and a 12yo boy with 2 years of karate that thinks fighting dad is just awesome

yes, he has sparring gear as well
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Old November 13th, 2009, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

Throat punch? My fist does not fit under my chin real well when I am relaxed much less when I am in a defensive position which naturally puts my head down. Not to mention your attacker will likely be at an angle to you. If you crush the trachea in something other than a deadly force situation I could see it being considered aggravated assault. - George
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Old November 13th, 2009, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

I watched my buddy knock someone out with a slap, pretty effective.
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Old November 13th, 2009, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

The only thing a "slap" is good for is when used with proper Aikido technique, and in that case we aikidoka (students of Aikido) would call it "atemi."



I recommend the study of Aikido for anyone interested in defending yourself, as firearms are not always appropriate.
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Old November 13th, 2009, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

So someone not trained in Aikido can not effectively use a slap against someone? And even if they do and call it another name than it is wrong? Atemi means hand right? Or at least that was what they told me in a Ju Jitsu class a long time ago. So if you tell someone to just hit them with a hand how would they know how to hit them? I guess if they only studied Aikido they would just "know"?

OK, wow, I just watched the video. Are you kidding me? When does anyone use that Hollywood choke unless it is up against the wall or on the ground. If you hit my forearms like that I will giggle. The easy escape from the Hollywood choke is to just bring your arm up center line and jab it into the attackers Manubrial notch, the Y at the top of your sternum.

How does the posted video have anything at all to do with my OP? This is the problem, people taking watered down traditional arts and trying to apply them to the street. If you are lucky enough to find a truly combative martial art it will still take you at least 6 months before you can use any of it in real life. And if you are using it in conjunction with a firearm you need and instructor who knows what he is doing to accomplish that. It does not just happen. - George
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Old November 13th, 2009, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Slapping in Combatives

"Atemi" in Aikido is a strike to "loosen up" a "Uke" prior to executing a throw or a joint lock. The philosophy is correct, but don't get me started on Aikido's "street" effectiveness.
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