2 seperate questions

[StealthBeast]

1: Removed the first question. It was detracting from the second.

2: Am I to understand that, federally speaking, black-powder firearms are considered "antiques" and therefore not firearms? I know they're considered firearms by our UFA... But does that mean I could legally order a cap n ball kit to my doorstep under the age of 21?

[tl_3237]

Originally Posted by StealthBeast

1- First, copy-paste of my question from the other thread:



2: Am I to understand that, federally speaking, black-powder firearms are considered "antiques" and therefore not firearms? I know they're considered firearms by our UFA... But does that mean I could legally order a cap n ball kit to my doorstep under the age of 21?

They appear to be excluded from the UFA except for specific references to 6106 (concealed/in vehicle) and 6105 (possession by prohibited person).

18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6118



Part II. Definition of Specific Offenses

Article G. Miscellaneous Offenses

Chapter 61. Firearms and Other Dangerous Articles

Subchapter A. Uniform Firearms Act (Refs & Annos)

§ 6118. Antique firearms



(a) General rule.--This subchapter shall not apply to antique firearms.


(b) Exception.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to the extent that such antique firearms, reproductions or replicas of firearms are concealed weapons as provided in section 6106 (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license), nor shall it apply to the provisions of section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) if such antique firearms, reproductions or replicas of firearms are suitable for use.


(c) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "antique firearm" means:

(1) Any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock or percussion cap type of ignition system.

(2) Any firearm manufactured on or before 1898.

(3) Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (2) if such replica:

(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition; or

(ii) uses rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

and they are exempt from 18 USC 922:

18 USC 921(a)(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

18 USC 921(a)(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

I can't find anything that legally prohibits your having one delivered but I'd be interested if anyone has a different take.

[gnbrotz]

1. In order to get an accurate answer, you're going to have to provide specific details. Exactly what was the charge, and when did it occur (grading for some crimes can change over time)?

[StealthBeast]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

1. In order to get an accurate answer, you're going to have to provide specific details. Exactly what was the charge, and when did it occur (grading for some crimes can change over time)?

He doesn't feel comfortable providing details.

Is there a list of charges I can link him to to see if his charge is one of them?

[gnbrotz]

His problem is the "most likely" verbage. If he won't provide the info needed to get an accurate answer, then why the heck would he even ask you to post? This is not something to be guessing about.

Perhaps he should simply pay an attorney to get the answer, and then he will also have the confidentiality he desires.

[StealthBeast]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

His problem is the "most likely" verbage. If he won't provide the info needed to get an accurate answer, then why the heck would he even ask you to post? This is not something to be guessing about.

Perhaps he should simply pay an attorney to get the answer, and then he will also have the confidentiality he desires.

I totally agree man, but for some reason he's adamant about not going into details.

Is there a link, or elaborate list of crimes that prevent gun ownership?

I showed him 18Pa.C.S.§6105, B and C, and he says it wasn't any of that.

I'll pass the suggestion of talking to a professional to him.

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by StealthBeast

Is there a link, or elaborate list of crimes that prevent gun ownership?

As I mentioned before, when can be just as important as what. The short answer is "no", there is not an exhaustive specific list to be referenced.

[StealthBeast]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

As I mentioned before, when can be just as important as what. The short answer is "no", there is not an exhaustive specific list to be referenced.

Alright. He's just gonna have to do his own damn research. I'm deleting the first question from the topic, as it's pulling away from MY question... Which was, Can someone under 21 order a black-powder handgun? (Specifically, me, at 18)

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by tl_3237

They appear to be excluded from the UFA except for specific references to 6106 (concealed/in vehicle) and 6105 (possession by prohibited person).
. . .

You are correct that 6105 INCLUDES antique and black powder guns as "firearms", for purposes of defining the things that a prohibited person may not possess.

So you can have a black powder revolver delivered to your home, but if a prohibited person touches it, he's in violation of 6105; and if you knowingly supplied it to him, you're a conspirator. I believe that the penalty for conspiracy is the same as the underlying offense.

[StealthBeast]

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

You are correct that 6105 INCLUDES antique and black powder guns as "firearms", for purposes of defining the things that a prohibited person may not possess.

So you can have a black powder revolver delivered to your home, but if a prohibited person touches it, he's in violation of 6105; and if you knowingly supplied it to him, you're a conspirator. I believe that the penalty for conspiracy is the same as the underlying offense.

Right, but now we're mixing the 2 very separate questions lol.

My question is can a black-powder PISTOL be delivered to be even though I'm under 21. I haven't found anything to suggest otherwise and I just wanted a few second opinions.

Now that I think about it... Couldn't someone get a black-powder pistol even under 18?

I ask because it seems farfetched and too good to be true.