Columbia University Libertarians would like to put on a Machine gun Shoot/BBQ

[Ajax22]

hi there, I apologize if this is not in the correct sub forum. I was just recently directed to your forum by one your members who also frequents calguns.net (I'm originally a Californian so I do most of my hanging out over there)

I'm currently a student who is attending Columbia University in NYC, and am active with the CU Libertarians.

I just got back from our weekly meeting, at which the other members were very supportive of the idea of putting on a machine gun shoot-n-q to get Columbia/NYU students active on the RKBA.

Essentially it would be a road trip to a nearby free state (Pennsylvania was mentioned as an ideal candidate) where we would have the opportunity to teach gun safety to some of the top students at one of the most liberal schools in the country. Then, there would be some range time under VERY close supervision, followed by a BBQ and we'd probably get some pro RKBA speakers lined up to speak after the dinner.

And in the process there would be GREAT PR opportunities for everyone involved.

We'll probably be needing to find an 07FFL/02SOT or private gun owner/club who is located close to NYC (anywhere within 4 hours or so is workable) and we'll be trying to get together a lot of sponsorship (ammo isn't cheap). If you have any idea of who to contact, or suggestions of where to hold the event the would be greatly appreciated... my personal experience in Pennsylvania is very very limited...

The NYU republicans seemed interested in participating and its possible that some other NYC based school organizations may be looking to get involved.

If anyone here knows of any manufacturers/clubs/organizations who we can approach to try to get this off the ground please let me know.

this will likely be very manpower intensive as it is vital that basic firearms instruction be provided as well as a high level of supervision, so if anyone knows of organizations who may be willing to provide supervision as well as firearms safety instruction that would be ideal.

It is very likely that this will attract a huge amount of backlash from both the university and politicians (Bloomberg et all) but that just means national media attention and more to offer sponsors.

Everything is still just up in the air, but based on the reception the idea received it could be a hugely successful event.... and if the university tries to block it from happening, the first amendment issues and positive press that would result from the institution suppressing free speech could be amazing.

This is also a great way to get some of the more politically active, freedom minded individuals who are active in NYC focused on the RKBA....

So.... suggestions? comments? criticisms?

any input/help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Marc

[beefcakeb0]

sounds like A LOT of planning would be required, shootin for spring?




instead of MG's, maybe just consider just a shoot in general... theres a lot of hassle, and bad hype involving fun switchy types, and you may be able to draw more attention with more than just machine guns


just my .01 cent

[Morel42]

Ya know, my first thought was "God I hope they're not planning to do that in the parking lot"

[mojo]

Two problems that I can think of with a MG shoot.

1. Finding people with MGs that are will to bring their guns for people to shoot.
2. Find a range/private property that will host this.

I think it's a great idea and don't get discouraged, but be realistic that it will take a lot of planning to do this safely.

If you did a regular shoot and not one specific to MGs, you will probably have an easier time.

There are a lot of liability issues that are going to make people hesitant on the two issues above.

Good luck and keep planning.

[Ajax22]

Thanks for the input so far guys,

As far as crossing state lines with NFA items, that was one of the reasons for trying to involve an 07FFL/02SOT as they have considerable freedom with such things (it also would be nice to shoot post sample guns to save the wear on privately held FA firearms)

As far as the appropriateness of NFA items for this shoot, I had similar reservations when we were conceiving this project. However the politically controversial nature of them could be extremely useful in trying to maximize the exposure of the event and ensuring it goes off successfully.

By having NFA items present it serves to state in no uncertain terms that this is NOT about hunting.

It also increases the chance of national media coverage, as well as increasing the chance of a backlash against the project from both the school and activist groups.

With a high enough level of supervision it should be manageable, and participation would be completely revocable at the discretion of the supervisory staff.

Even if FA use was limited to a few short bursts from a 1919A4 it would increase the success of the project and make it much more marketable.

It is going to require a huge amount of organizing, planning, and overcoming logistic obstacles.

Yes this would have to be a spring event... probably a couple weeks before finals.

There is no way it could be organized/funded in time for winter... and it gets cold out here on this coast. I'd rather wait for a bit warmer weather.

If this was an activity aimed at any other industry/hobby/activist group I wouldn't think it was possible, but It has been my experience that when it comes to the 2A, the entire shooting community is amazingly resourceful, organized, and pro-active.

This is a chance to win over fence sitters who's are the future ambassadors, industry leaders, politicians, etc. And to rob the anti's of their traditional power base.

I want Columbia university to be a place where pro RKBA activists WANT to go, I want it to attract people who want to fight for our cause. And I think this is the first step to getting there.

This is a hugely influential institution. In many classes we get invited to meetings at the UN, we have access to the people who are writing the new Cap and Trade proposals, we get to meet with ambassadors, prime ministers, etc. etc.... We even have the opportunity to directly lobby congress if we want to.... its really amazing the amount of influence that is here.

But... there is almost zero activity on the RKBA front. And in my opinion that needs to change... This event would be a huge step in that direction.

[Swarner793]

A commercial range with rentals may be the only way to get a bunch of folks trigger time on registered items. I have never been to, so I can not vouch for, Sunset Hill Shooting Range in the Poconos http://sunsethill.slvrcreek.com/home.htm . I does meet several of the requirements like location and available firearms. This does not address your BBQ/Picnic ideas, unless they have an area to have such a function. Someone on here would know better than I, or contact them.

As mentioned by the others, a regular shoot would be as fun. Granted, it does not have the same "shock" value on the antis as full-auto firearms would, but still a bunch of fun. Besides, the antis do not really know the difference between the two anyhow, just ask one

Be safe (and DON'T do it in the parking lot!).

Scott

[kunsunoke]

Assuming that what you're going for is actual machine guns, then you'd need support from owners of NFA/Class 3 weapons. These items are in short supply and are expensive, thanks to Charlie Rangel tacking a ban on full-auto weapons manufactured after 1986 to a gun owner's protection bill - see LINK

You might consider talking to some folks in these sections of our forum:

http://forum.pafoa.org/nfa-class-3-t...ll-page-8.html (NFA Owners roll call)

http://forum.pafoa.org/nfa-class-3-title-ii-34/

IMO you're better off trying to glom onto a PAFOA group-shoot. Guaranteed there will be folks with semiautomatic rifles. Details HERE.

As for basic instruction, there are enough NRA cert instructors present for that to occur - however you might not want to assume they're going to give their training courses for free. See HERE. NRA cert instructors have been trained to give courses like this, and it is also logical to expect that they would be insured appropriately in the (unlikely) event that someone gets hurt.

[Ajax22]

Originally Posted by Swarner793

A commercial range with rentals may be the only way to get a bunch of folks trigger time on registered items. I have never been to, so I can not vouch for, Sunset Hill Shooting Range in the Poconos http://sunsethill.slvrcreek.com/home.htm . I does meet several of the requirements like location and available firearms. This does not address your BBQ/Picnic ideas, unless they have an area to have such a function. Someone on here would know better than I, or contact them.

As mentioned by the others, a regular shoot would be as fun. Granted, it does not have the same "shock" value on the antis as full-auto firearms would, but still a bunch of fun. Besides, the antis do not really know the difference between the two anyhow, just ask one

Be safe (and DON'T do it in the parking lot!).

Scott

Thats a very viable option.... it looks like its only 50 or so miles from the city. A rental range would be a good way to do it, as it would eliminate much of the logistic issues...

I really don't want to focus on the entertainment aspects of the event... anything with guns is fun (heck I'd have a hoot just going to a local gun show)... this is first and foremost a political/media activist event. If we stick to the NFA aspects of this we are almost assured that there will be a substantial backlash in the national media (Machine guns and college students are a BIG story anywhere, particularly NYC)... If they over react and try to squash the event, then this becomes a 1st amendment issue and we pick up even more allies, more attention, more support, and are more effective.

So I really feel that it is essential to have Machine guns/suppressors/SBS/SBR etc. as an integral component of the event. Having them present makes it clear in no uncertain terms that this is not about hunting, or collecting, or competition... this is about RIGHTS.

I want everyone who comes to be able to say "I fired a machine gun, it was no big deal" instead of just "I shot my uncles shotgun one time at thanksgiving"

Once someone fires a machine gun they no longer have any prejudice against evil 'assault weapons' or 'sniper rifles' or 'Saturday night specials'

And they will likely be uncompromising RKBA supporters for the rest of their life....

[adymond]

I really get the idea that you want to ensure this is not about grandpappy's hunting rifle going for the NFA items, but I think just making this an AR/AK shoot would accomplish the same thing and would open your options greatly as to where you can go. I know only a few ranges allow NFA items.

[Ajax22]

Originally Posted by kunsunoke

Assuming that what you're going for is actual machine guns, then you'd need support from owners of NFA/Class 3 weapons. These items are in short supply and are expensive, thanks to Charlie Rangel tacking a ban on full-auto weapons manufactured after 1986 to a gun owner's protection bill - see LINK

You might consider talking to some folks in these sections of our forum:

http://forum.pafoa.org/nfa-class-3-t...ll-page-8.html (NFA Owners roll call)

http://forum.pafoa.org/nfa-class-3-title-ii-34/

IMO you're better off trying to glom onto a PAFOA group-shoot. Guaranteed there will be folks with semiautomatic rifles. Details HERE.

As for basic instruction, there are enough NRA cert instructors present for that to occur - however you might not want to assume they're going to give their training courses for free. See HERE. NRA cert instructors have been trained to give courses like this, and it is also logical to expect that they would be insured appropriately in the (unlikely) event that someone gets hurt.

Yes, I'm going for actual machine guns... preferably post sample guns that could be provided by an 07FFL/02SOT... I'd rather try to avoid putting a bunch of wear on privately held transferable MG's if possible, its a lot to ask of an individual to offer up their personal MG to a group of strangers, they represent a considerable investment and they cannot be replaced.

My concern with gloming onto an existing function is that it would be unlikely to be structured in a way that could have the level of supervision necessary for this type of event.

I don't assume that anything will be free, it would be great if everything was but highly unlikely... logistics and financing are completely separate issues.

As far as insurance, I was going to look into obtaining a policy through the NRA to cover this specific event... it will probably require a little bit of paperwork, but if I recall correctly they were not particularly expensive.