Larry Mudgett on LAPD rifle program

[Shawn.L]

good read from a guy that speaks plain truth

From: lawrencemudgett

Subject: LAPD Info

To:

Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 1:58 PM


All

Interesting information. when I was the Chief Instructor for the LAPD Rifle Program, Sgt Salseda and I had to fight and fight again to keep the 200 meter uphill sprint in the qualification course. I was constantly being called on the carpet for maintaining that part of the training. I was able to keep that in the program by conducting a survey of all field deployments to substantiate the need for strenuous physical activity during typical rifle deployment. Now the department realizes that we were correct all along. I am sure that we will be given credit for fighting the system to make the program more relevant for the street officers. Yea right.



They now allow supervisors to deploy rifles. That is not such a good idea. The supervisor is supposed to be running the operation as opposed to being the operator who does the shooting. Pros and cons here.



Issuing rifles to officers who have not been trained but have been in the military is a terrible idea. I know from experience that military small arms training is horrible. Other than special ops, the training is so bad that accidental discharges and accidental shootings when loaded rifles are deployed is almost routine. When I ran the LAPD rifle program approximately half of the officers who failed to pass the course due to improper gun handling or safety violations were prior military!! As an Infantry Light Weapons Sgt., I observed numerous negligent discharges and several fatal accidents. If the LAPD is stupid enough to settle for a military safety record they will eventually be sorry.



The military tactics which are now part of the program are great if they are taught in addition to an adequate amount of time being spent on safety, gun handling and marksmanship. (Not likely). When we taught military tactics in the rifle program we were challenged for doing so. For example A Lt. called me complaining and yelling " why are you teaching military tactics to police officers!" I am sure that he will call me now and apologize for his ignorance. Of course he is probable a Deputy Chief by now.



At one time LAPD had the best Patrol Rifle Program in the country and they have the resources to do so again, but they wont. It costs money, and they no longer have the expertise to create such a program. I find it interesting that SWAT and Metro are conducting the training because they fought "tooth and nail" to prevent Patrol from having rifles. I believe that they were of the opinion patrol rifles would undermine their empire reducing the departments dependence on these special units. When they could not stop the creation of the Patrol Rifle Program they suggested that they would provide a one day training program with 100 officers firing in relays. Such a training program that would have been doomed to failure proving their objections to patrol rifles were valid. On the the one occasion that we ran a platoon of Metro officers through our Patrol Rifle Qualification Course none of them passed. We also had a SWAT Sniper attend our Patrol Rifle Instructor Course and he failed to pass the Marksmanship Qualification. So tell me again, who created and is running this program, and what are the standards?



Apparently the Rifle School has been reduced to 3 days, with the third day being reserved for tactics. When we ran the program it was 5 days with the fifth day being reserved for tactics. Our standards were so high that even with a 40 hour program we had a very high failure rate. Typically 25 percent of every class had to repeat the course and several officers were deemed to be hazardous and not allowed to return. I suspect that the standards have been reduced dramatically and failures are rare. Over time there will be a price paid by the city for this. One negligent discharge which hits an innocent person will cost the city more money than a quality training program ever did. LAPD has a bad habit of doubling its efforts after loosing sight of its goals.



One positive note. Changing the Deployment Policy was a great idea and something that Lou and I attempted to accomplish for years.



Retired Sgt. Lou Salseda former OIC of the LAPD firearms training unit can verify every factual statement I have made here. Feel free to pass my comments on to anyone that you wish.



I would advise any officer on LAPD who is authorized to carry a rifle to take a course at Gunsite or some other reputable school and learn more than LAPD is willing to pay to teach them. (Not Front Site and not Blackwater)


Lawrence Mudgett (15467 retired LAPD)

[Steve in PA]

What "military tactics"?? Cover and concealment?? Shooting on the move??

[customloaded]

Hot loads with mag changes? Ahhh, Kneeling and firing or firing while kneeling, hmmmm, what else, Oh I know, wearing camo clothing while training? LOL Who the hell knows what they're talking about...LOL

[MichaelJ]

It might just be me, but it seems like this is more of a Gunsite ad then a critique of LAPD rifle policy.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by MichaelJ

It might just be me, but it seems like this is more of a Gunsite ad then a critique of LAPD rifle policy.

It is just you.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt given that you may not know Mudgett's complete bio / background.

[Seventy4Blazer]

Originally Posted by MichaelJ

It might just be me, but it seems like this is more of a Gunsite ad then a critique of LAPD rifle policy.

Larry Mudgett is a gunsite graduate, and its not just you that sees this, its me as well...

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by Seventy4Blazer

Larry Mudgett is a gunsite graduate, and its not just you that sees this, its me as well...

You're certain of that?

Does "D" Platoon ring a bell?

[d90king]

Interesting article with some harsh words, but sadly much of it is true. The facts are that LEO is in desperate need in certain locals of better training. It also emphasizes that basic military instruction is far from adequate at its early stages. However I will say that I believe that as you grow in the military your training grows with you, especially when you are part of elite units or a DM etc... I have trained and shot along side many LEO's that had more gun handling issues than one would expect for properly trained LEO's. I think the thing that wasn't stressed enough was good marksmanship and high accuracy standards.

Kinda funny how he distanced himself from the Black Water (which has changed its name to US Training Center) and Front Site and the stigma of those outfits. Not sure how fair it is in Black Waters case because they do offer great instruction if you get the right guy and they have from my understanding a world class facility...

[NY Refugee]

The funny thing here is the the LA bank shoot out, when the LAPD did not carry assault rifles, is what made the case for departments to up gun its officers.
Almost sounds like LAPD still has not learned its lesson.

[d90king]

Originally Posted by NY Refugee

The funny thing here is the the LA bank shoot out, when the LAPD did not carry assault rifles, is what made the case for departments to up gun its officers.
Almost sounds like LAPD still has not learned its lesson.

They also couldn't make a head shot. They did carry rifles though... The last robber was shot in the ankle by a M4 while using a car as cover if memory serves me...