HOA Banning Gun Ownership in Private Community

[PhillyMom]

Our HOA is considering the banning of gun ownership in our private community. My husband is a retired Federal agent and has a Federal permit to carry anywhere in the US. Both he and I have CC permits for PA. Yes, he is gun collector, and a hunter. We are both responsible individuals who have never been in any trouble at all with any law enforcement agency anywhere. We have never displayed or discharged any firearms within the community. However, a couple of members of the board of directors do not like Feds, nor my husband, and are obviously aiming this new proposed rule at us.

What are their chances of prevailing in instituting such a law and how could they enforce it? It would seem to me it violates the constitution to say we cannot own any guns.

It's a very small community and they claim they will put the rule to a vote of members who wish to vote on it. All six of their friends, no doubt. We have an attorney and are prepared for a fight on this.

With crime rising in our area you would think they would want well-trained individuals to protect their community. Therein is part of the problem. My husband has identified many activities that are illegal and reported them, mostly on the board members and a couple of their friends. They are attempting to retaliate.

What are our chances in prevailing if such a rule were passed here in PA, or should we just look to move. We came here for peace and quiet and security after my husband retired but it appears many don't want such an atmosphere and like to argue.

[MontCo Alex]

It violates both state and federal constitutions. I would mention this at the next meeting. Don't forget about the state, a lot of people just mention the "2nd amendment".

As for the legality of this, I have no idea. I would think that mostly HOA have authority over the outside of your house. I didn't think they would be able to limit what you do in it, especially something constitutionally protected, inside your own home.

Threatening legal action will defiantly stop this, does your small community want to pay for a lawyer to fight to take away your rights?

-Alex

[GunLawyer001]

Without the right to search the interior of your home, how would they know whether you have guns or not?

Sometimes, the best approach is to nod your head and ignore them. They have no right to search you, your home, or your vehicles. They can ask if you own guns, and you can politely tell them to screw themselves.

I'm not particularly familiar with the rules governing HOA's, whether they are sufficiently like a local government that they are pre-empted from gun regulation. It's been my impression that HOA's can regulate right up to your wall, but no further. They can demand that you paint your outside walls purple, but can't object if you paint the inside walls orange. They could prohibit target shooting outside, but not ownership inside. At least, that's my impression from never having handled an HOA case. I suspect that there are PA statutes that cover this.

Cheapest thing is to ignore them. What would the penalty be if they saw your husband carting a gun into his vehicle? And how hard would it be to wrap every long package in a trash bag?

This is why you need to get involved in the HOA, take it over and stop the nonsense.

EDIT: HOA's are not really "state actors" for Constitutional purposes, so this ban wouldn't violate the Fed or PA constitutions; but the UFA has a pre-emption statute that might possibly apply, maybe.

[PhillyMom]

Thanks. Apparently, someone has seen just that, my husband loading and unloading guns (in cartons and carriers, not loose) into his truck when he has gone to trade or sell. The next door neighbor (good friend of board president) is terrified of guns and hates them. That started the ball rolling. Then, the developer who built our home (again, board member) has decided to reveal that my husband designed a "safe room" with a vault door that was built into our home and is now saying it's to house guns. Our attorney will file motions on our behalf on this for him to cease and desist disseminating such information as it's a safety and security issue. Some of these people are, quite frankly, just idiots. One would think they would love to have a level-headed, well-trained, former Federal agent in their midst.

All we wanted was peace an quiet. What did we get ourselves into?

And yes, it would also seem to me to that they can govern outside but not inside the home. I understand the provision of not firing a gun in the community (except for defense of course) but not owning or keeping a gun on your premises? Strange. Since they have no subpoena powers and we are not breaking any criminal law I don't know how they can enforce such a thing either. That's why I believe it's just harassment.

The funny thing is, whenever there is a problem or something goes wrong the neighbors call my husband. Ice storms, power outages, strange noises, he's their man. When someone is going away and needs their home looked after, they call my husband. We are hoping the residents won't pass such a rule and we will do our best to make sure it doesn't go through. But even if it does, I'm not sure it's enforceable and needed to see what others thought or knew.

[GunLawyer001]

If it were me, and I really wanted the neighbors on my side, I'd think about revealing that if the guns go, so will I, because I recently received an offer from a Mexican family looking for a big place with a yard for all their kids and pets and relatives, someplace where nobody complains about the pungent cooking aromas or the sound of diesel trucks early in the morning.

[PhillyMom]

We've considered something like that, only it had more to do with a large family from Saudi Arabia who have several young men who are relatives, "students", that need a quiet place to live in the US near large cities.

[thelemite]

Can you say or pm me which community it is?

[whoshisface]

Our HOA is considering the banning of gun ownership in our private community. My husband is a retired Federal agent and has a Federal permit to carry anywhere in the US. Both he and I have CC permits for PA. Yes, he is gun collector, and a hunter. We are both responsible individuals who have never been in any trouble at all with any law enforcement agency anywhere. We have never displayed or discharged any firearms within the community. However, a couple of members of the board of directors do not like Feds, nor my husband, and are obviously aiming this new proposed rule at us.

What are their chances of prevailing in instituting such a law and how could they enforce it? It would seem to me it violates the constitution to say we cannot own any guns.

It's a very small community and they claim they will put the rule to a vote of members who wish to vote on it. All six of their friends, no doubt. We have an attorney and are prepared for a fight on this.

With crime rising in our area you would think they would want well-trained individuals to protect their community. Therein is part of the problem. My husband has identified many activities that are illegal and reported them, mostly on the board members and a couple of their friends. They are attempting to retaliate.

What are our chances in prevailing if such a rule were passed here in PA, or should we just look to move. We came here for peace and quiet and security after my husband retired but it appears many don't want such an atmosphere and like to argue.

Tell us where you live they can fine you but they can't fine us for walking through the neighborhood unless they post private property and even then If I'm coming to see you I can stand on your front lawn all day long. Sure they can call the police who in turn would say it's legal your contract is only valid in civil court have a nice day. I didn't sign the contract so what I do isn't something the HOA can control. Also the HOA couldn't fine you for something I'm doing as you have no direct control over me. How would your HOA feel about have 50 gun owners show up on your front lawn for a sit in every week for 3 weeks prior to thier vote? Just so they know it isn't a good idea for them to attempt to pass such a thing!

[whoshisface]

Thanks. Apparently, someone has seen just that, my husband loading and unloading guns (in cartons and carriers, not loose) into his truck when he has gone to trade or sell. The next door neighbor (good friend of board president) is terrified of guns and hates them. That started the ball rolling. Then, the developer who built our home (again, board member) has decided to reveal that my husband designed a "safe room" with a vault door that was built into our home and is now saying it's to house guns. Our attorney will file motions on our behalf on this for him to cease and desist disseminating such information as it's a safety and security issue. Some of these people are, quite frankly, just idiots. One would think they would love to have a level-headed, well-trained, former Federal agent in their midst.

All we wanted was peace an quiet. What did we get ourselves into?

And yes, it would also seem to me to that they can govern outside but not inside the home. I understand the provision of not firing a gun in the community (except for defense of course) but not owning or keeping a gun on your premises? Strange. Since they have no subpoena powers and we are not breaking any criminal law I don't know how they can enforce such a thing either. That's why I believe it's just harassment.

The funny thing is, whenever there is a problem or something goes wrong the neighbors call my husband. Ice storms, power outages, strange noises, he's their man. When someone is going away and needs their home looked after, they call my husband. We are hoping the residents won't pass such a rule and we will do our best to make sure it doesn't go through. But even if it does, I'm not sure it's enforceable and needed to see what others thought or knew.

Sounds like your neighbors have been helped by your husband a lot. Time to make some personal calls and ask for thier support.

[whoshisface]

I went looking for any law in the PA code that had HOA HOME OWNER ASSOCIATION (S) and found 1 law in which a reference was made to a case. So basically I see nothng that limits what an HOA can do in the PA code. Then again those lazy f#$%s still dont have title 18 in there.. Idiots!