Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
HB2011 and HB1243 Updates

So far, there hasn't been a 2nd Consideration vote on either of these bills. WE NEED TO KEEP UP THE PRESSURE, and continue to contact our legislators - ask them to tell House leadership to bring these bills to a vote! Ask them to vote YES on HB2011, and NO on the Universal Background Check amendment. In addition, the FOAC is requesting support for an amendment proposed to HB1243 (Mental Health Records for Firearms Purchases) that, if passed, will allow HB1243 to restore firearm rights to those who have recovered from a mental illness.


For more information and updates on these efforts,
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For legislator contact information,
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

So, I was at the Hofbrauhaus in southside last night and upon leaving, I see a sign that I didn't see upon entering (it was turned in such a direction that I could not see it upon entering). "We reserve the right to check all bags" in very large print on a plastic, permanent sign. Needless to say this pissed me off instantly. I am wondering the legalities of this.

Hofbrauhaus is a large German style micro-brewery / restaurant in the southside of Pittsburgh.

It seems they are looking for glassware thieves, but this seems very very shady for many reasons.... "omg he's got a gun" is only one of those reasons.

Last edited by archangel689; August 17th, 2009 at 04:59 AM.
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default Re: "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

Don't carry in a bag while there?

I just concealed IWB when there last time.
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default Re: "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

Still, can they just check your bag? If you want to leave, and they want to check your bag, they can't hold you there any longer than you want to be there.
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default Re: "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

I didn't know that they had the right to check your bag to begin with.
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default Re: "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

There are no legalities. If you are on their land, or wish to be there, you submit to the conditions by your own free will. You are free not to go there and you are free to leave if you dont like the conditions a property owner has made.

I can require that you open carry your guns and dress up like Laura Croft, then require that your purse be searched as part of the permission to be on my property.
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default Re: "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

Good thing I dont carry a bag then... will be there Sat night for my Birthday beer and dinner... I won't be carrying anything but intend to be carried out. J/K...
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default Re: "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

My wife and I visited P-Burgh to this past weekend to celebrate our anniversary, and had a chance to go the Hofbrauhaus on Sat. afternoon. We were sitting down in the beer garden, and I was quaffing a liter of lager, when I saw one of the young men down the bar was obviously printing. It looked like a midsize pistol in a black OWB leather rig, about 4 o'clock. We were getting ready to leave soon, and as it happens, the group he was with left around the same time. We were parked several cars down from them, and I struck up a conversation with them, they were very friendly, and it turned out he was carrying a Glock 19, I believe. Possibly a forum member here?

Interestingly, I did not see the sign about the bag search, I was carrying a Sig P220 and 3 extra mags in a Maxpedition shoulder bag. (Along with Surefire, para chord, Benchmade knife, etc.... and other things that they would probably not have approved of, had they searched my bag).

Curious, if I had been asked if they could search my bag, I'm assuming I could have just left the premises (after paying, of course). I'm trying to imagine how that would go down, since I would not consent to such a search. I'd probably thrown down enough cash to cover the bill, and politely excuse myself. Any input?
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default Re: "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

Quote:
Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
There are no legalities. If you are on their land, or wish to be there, you submit to the conditions by your own free will. You are free not to go there and you are free to leave if you dont like the conditions a property owner has made.

I can require that you open carry your guns and dress up like Laura Croft, then require that your purse be searched as part of the permission to be on my property.
But...it sounds like Archangel believes they intend to check bags as you are leaving the establishment...as that is the direction the sign is pointed....?
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default Re: "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

Quote:
Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
There are no legalities. If you are on their land, or wish to be there, you submit to the conditions by your own free will. You are free not to go there and you are free to leave if you dont like the conditions a property owner has made.
They have a sign positioned in such a way that I couldn't see it UNTIL I WENT TO LEAVE--that they "reserve the right to search you." What if I refuse to be searched? Are they going to DETAIN ME ILLEGALLY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
But...it sounds like Archangel believes they intend to check bags as you are leaving the establishment...as that is the direction the sign is pointed....?
I BELIEVE they are. It looks like they are looking for folks stealing glassware. Wait until they pull a FN FAL out of mary poppin's handbag.... lol

Last edited by archangel689; August 17th, 2009 at 09:27 AM.
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Old August 17th, 2009
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Default Re: "We reserve the right to check all bags" -- Hofbrauhaus

Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel689 View Post
You AREN'T free to leave. This is what I'm getting at. They have a sign that you don't see UNTIL YOU GO TO LEAVE that they "reserve the right to search you." What if I refuse to be searched? They are going to DETAIN ME ILLEGALLY, get it now?
Retail theft laws would cover such things then.
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