Warning: Dealer Provided Invalid Trust to Customers

[SigForLife]

I just wanted to alert everyone in the NFA realm that it has come to light that allegedly a dealer who has been providing free NFA trusts to his customers has been providing invalid trusts, which could subject his customer's NFA firearms to forfeiture and prosecution for violating the NFA. Attorney David Goldman was contacted by a customer of the dealer and was asked to review the trust for validity. The trust was blatantly invalid and didn't even provide a section for a beneficiary. I have written about the issue and a link to Attorney Goldman's in-depth review of the trust here: http://blog.princelaw.com/2009/8/14/...ust-is-invalid

[bleaman225]

Makes me glad I had Prince Law write up my NFA trust...

[J Krammes]

Let me guess... You work for Prince Law.

Jeremy

[ithinkimamedic]

Originally Posted by J Krammes

Let me guess... You work for Prince Law.

Jeremy

Your point?! Regardless if he does or does not this is good information to disseminate.

[SigForLife]

Yes, I work for Prince Law and most everyone knows that by now.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by ithinkimamedic

Your point?! Regardless if he does or does not this is good information to disseminate.

+100000000

[J Krammes]

You guys are making your rounds on the gun/class III forums with this message. I don't have a problem with anyone telling this info, I just have a problem with you guys using fear to sell your services. You always tell the problem, but never tell anyone what the outcome was. It was solved with out issue, and he still has all his firearms. If the ATF is finding invalid trusts they are sending them back and telling the purchaser to fix it, just like if you make a mistake on you r form 1 or 4. I am using a trust for my CIII purchases and was going to come to you guys to look it over, but for $600 and the way you have been using this fear tactic I have decided not to. A lawyer MAY be better, but also MAY screw it up. My family had an issue with a Will that a lawyer really messed up. Run your business however you want, but your methods don't sit well with me.

Jeremy

[SigForLife]

Jeremy,

I put the information out so that people who may be affected are made aware and can decide how to act. Furthermore, I don't know where you got the price of $600, because that isn't what we charge. Lastly, on all the issues that arise and postings that I do, if I know of the outcome, I always update the article with the outcome. To date, I do not know of any firearms having been forfeited by the BATFE for an invalid trust. However, this does not mean that the BATFE will continue down this path and it is also unlikely that the same would result if the invalid grantor died before making the trust valid.

[J Krammes]

I apologise for the miss quote on the price. It must have been a different lawyer. What do you guys charge? I understand what you are doing, I just don't like how you are going about doing it. Also it is all based on what MIGHT happen and nothing has. I know the ATF changes things on a whim, but just because someone uses a law firm to draft a trust does not mean it will be right when the ATF decides on changes.

Jeremy

[SigForLife]

Jeremy,

We don't advertise our prices online, but feel free to call if you want a quote. Depending on what a person wants, it is usually less than the cost for 2 transfers. Also, I think you are mixing apples with oranges. The validity of a trust is a state law issue. There are no federal laws/statutes on what makes a trust valid. Thus, every state has its own trust statutes that layout what is required to form a valid trust. The BATFE does not have the authority to dictate what constitutes a trust for a state, outside of following the state specific statutes. Thus, if a state says a grantor can also be trustee and sole-beneficiary (Please don't do this because I am unaware of ANY state that allows this), the Federal regs only state that a trust can own NFA. Thus, if a person complies with his/her state statutes, the BATFE cannot, in essence, make federal trust law and say that his/her trust is invalid even though it complies with the state requirements. That being said, what ostensibly could happen is that the BATFE could enter into Rulemaking and change the regulation that defines a person as a natural person, trust, corp...etc to exclude trusts, corps...etc.