Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association

Go Back   Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Discussion > General

General General firearm-related talk that does not fit into any of the other forums.

PAFOA Shopping Partners A percentage of all sales made through these partner links goes to PAFOA. PAFOA Elsewhere Connect with PAFOA around the web.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old August 13th, 2009
DaveM55's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location:
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
(Allegheny County)
Age: 54
Posts: 1,779
Rep Power: 721
DaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond reputeDaveM55 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Active shooter's release leaves community speechless

http://www.policeone.com/active-shoo...ty-speechless/

In April 2009 the District 4 Court of the State of Wisconsin ordered the release of Bryan Stanley, the killer of three people in a church. Two doctors — both mental health experts — agreed that he is no danger to the public as long as he takes his medication.

24 Years Earlier
On a winter night in 1985 in La Crosse Wisconsin, veteran Officer Paul Bequette cautiously approached a lone figure hiding in the bushes beside St. Francis hospital. During the contact, the suspect became belligerent and claimed to be “the Prophet Elijah.” The troubled man, Bryan Stanley, threatened that he would call down an angel to kill Officer Bequette.

Officer Bequette took Stanley into custody and Stanley suddenly became eerily quiet. Bequette recalled that his detainee wore the “1000 yard stare.” Bryan Stanley’s mind was occupied miles from nowhere and he looked distant, dangerous, and deadly. It would be a contact that the Officer Bequette would remember the rest of his life. It may have been a life-saving encounter.

The officer placed a psychiatric hold on “Elijah,” which in Wisconsin is called, “a Chapter 51 Hold.” Shortly after the hold was placed on Bryan he was examined by a psychiatrist and released from the hospital.

Days later, Officers John Matuska and Randy Rank dealt with Stanley once again and came to the same conclusion. They felt Stanley was in need of psychiatric treatment and a danger to the community. For a second time in just a handful of days he was released by a psychiatric specialist back into the community, creating for a number families and an entire community an eternal, “If only...”

The Tragedy
Shortly after the second release, Father John Rossiter — a jovial Irish priest and pastor of St. Patrick’s Church in Onalaska, Wisconsin — answered a knock on the door of his rectory. Standing on the stoop was a serious looking Bryan Stanley. Stanley was short and direct, warning the smiling priest to stop allowing girls to read scriptures at mass.

Father Rositer smiled — it was his way. He explained to Stanley that he would continue to allow girls to read the scripture, explaining, “If it’s all right with the Pope, it’s all right with me.” He bid the sour looking Stanley, “Good Day to you young man,” and shut the door.

After mass that day, Bryan Stanley crept quietly up behind the parish priest and raised a 12 gauge shotgun. He aimed carefully and fired, hitting Father Rossiter in the back of the head as he knelt before the altar, instantly killing the man. Stanley shot Ferd Roth Sr, a lay minister, as he came to assist Father Rossiter. Stanley then went on the hunt and found one other person in the church, William Hammes, the maintenance man for St. Pat’s, and mercilessly gunned him down. When it appeared Stanley was out of victims he calmly cased his shotgun and walked out of the church as if nothing had happened.

Within minutes, Bryan Stanley was spotted by a deputy a few blocks from the scene carrying the cased shotgun. Unaware that people had been killed in the church, Deputy Randy Haller of the La Crosse County Sheriff’s Department drew his firearm and shouted for the suspect to drop the weapon and get down. Stanley ignored Haller’s commands initially, but then slowly and deliberately stopped turned and began to uncase his shotgun. The Deputy Haller shouted one last warning, “It’s not worth it. Stop or I’ll blow your head off!”

Stanley complied with Haller’s imperative, and laid down the still cased weapon and went prone on the sidewalk. When the Deputy Haller handcuffed his captor he asked him who he was and was told, “I am the Prophet Elijah.”

Not Guilty By Reason of Mental Disease and Defect
The deaths shocked the community to the core. There was no one as beloved in Onalaska as Father Rossiter. The country had not yet been inundated by the post-Columbine Carnage. Law Enforcement training manuals did not yet contain references to the “active shooter.”

The families were devastated by the event, since none had ever prepared mentally for a violent end for such peace-loving people as Father Rossiter, Mr. Roth, and Mr. Hammes. All the families could hope for was justice.

There would be no justice in the Bryan Stanley case. Psychiatric experts now testified that Bryan Stanley was clearly dangerous and so mentally ill he was not competent to understand his crimes, nor the proceedings against him. Bryan Stanley was found “Not Guilty By Reason of Mental Disease and Defect.”

He was ordered to the Mendota Mental Health Facility for treatment.

As Paul Harvey Would Say, “Now for the Rest of the Story”
After his commitment there was a time of diagnoses and medication. Over the years Stanley’s attorney clamored for the release of Bryan Stanley. Time and time again his release was denied by local judges.

Stanley’s attorney tried once again in 2008 and La Crosse County Judge Ramona Gonzalez pointed to documented cases, when Bryan Stanley refused to take his medicine at Mendota. She denied his the request for release, indicating that there was no guarantee that if Stanley was released, he would stay on his medication.

Stanley’s attorney appealed the Judge’s decision to continue to protect the community from Bryan Stanley and in April of 2009 the District 4 Court ordered his release from Mendota. Another court battle is brewing, because his location has been kept from the community for Bryan Stanley’s protection.

Rose Hammes, whose father was killed in St. Pat’s Church, was troubled by the court’s decision. She told a local newspaper if Stanley was to be released, “I want to know where he is.” Time and the courts will say whether her simple request will be honored.

A Police Officer’s Father Died in That Church
Sgt. Ferd Roth Jr. retired recently from the La Crosse, Wisconsin Police Department after 29 years. His father Ferd Roth Sr. was killed by Bryan Stanley as he came to the aid of Father Rossiter. The Roth family has witnessed the relentless efforts by Stanley’s attorney to gain the release of Bryan Stanley. Sgt. Roth has listened to the statements of doctors who repeatedly have marveled at Stanley’s recovery, swearing that he will be of no danger to the community “as long as he stays on his medication.”

A long career has taught Sgt. Roth that our system of justice is good, but imperfect. He opined on Stanley’s release, “I didn’t think this day would come. He did what he did and there are no guarantees, by his own admission, that he will take his medicine.”

Sgt. Roth did not share the optimistic view of the psychiatrist and the District 4 court. He hoped that innocents would not be affected if Stanley once again stopped taking his medications. “I guess what I hope for is once he gets released instead of picking a church, next time maybe he’ll visit his attorney and his psychiatrist that say he is mentally competent.”

Prepare
In the news reports in the many subsequent active shooter incidents since Stanley’s bloody rampage, the headlines read, “8 killed,” or “13 gunned down,” heralding the gruesome accomplishments of another active shooter. To the families the neighbors and co-workers of these victims they are not numbers.

Father John Rossiter, William Hammes, and Ferd Roth Sr. were all exemplary human beings. All who knew them were better for it. They are examples of the many good people who have died at the hands of these shooters. The kind of people a doctor, a lawyer, a judge, or a police officer might be called upon to save some day just by believing what they say and taking the appropriate action...

With the release of Bryan Stanley he becomes an extremely rare case of an active shooter: one who has killed and lived to be released back into the community where he did his killing.

This case invites commentary but leaves one speechless. Perhaps Sgt. Ferd Roth said it best, “What can you say? It is what it is.”

Stay Safe. Stay Strong. Stay positive, Stay Prepared!
__________________
"Having a gun and thinking you are armed is like having a piano and thinking you are a musician" Col. Jeff Cooper (U.S.M.C. Ret.)
Speed is fine, Accuracy is final

Reply With Quote

Thanks for visiting our forum! If you ever plan to return you should consider quickly registering for a forum account, especially if you're in Pennsylvania. It's simple to do and best of all free. Once registered you'll be able to participate in our discussions and keep up to date on issues important to Pennsylvania firearm owners!

  #2 (permalink)  
Old August 13th, 2009
crlovel's Avatar
Grand Member
PAFOA Bronze Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Quakertown, Pennsylvania
(Bucks County)
Age: 36
Posts: 1,618
Rep Power: 581
crlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond reputecrlovel has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Active shooter's release leaves community speechless

Quote:
Within minutes, Bryan Stanley was spotted by a deputy a few blocks from the scene carrying the cased shotgun. Unaware that people had been killed in the church, Deputy Randy Haller of the La Crosse County Sheriff’s Department drew his firearm and shouted for the suspect to drop the weapon and get down.
I'm waiting to see how many folks cry foul on this guy's arrest based on this meritless stop.
__________________
Meleanie Hain - Gone, never forgotten. We miss you.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old August 13th, 2009
granuale's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location:
Lansdowne, Pennsylvania
(Delaware County)
Posts: 934
Rep Power: 594
granuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond reputegranuale has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Active shooter's release leaves community speechless

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveM55 View Post
Within minutes, Bryan Stanley was spotted by a deputy a few blocks from the scene carrying the cased shotgun. Unaware that people had been killed in the church, Deputy Randy Haller of the La Crosse County Sheriff’s Department drew his firearm and shouted for the suspect to drop the weapon and get down.
I find it completely outrageous that a man walking down the street with a cased shotgun was illegally arrested, not to mention drawn on in the United States. How much more awful for the families and the community if officer stupid's actions resulted in the inadmissibility of the only evidence of Stanley's guilt - a distinct possibility and one of he many many reasons police should actually follow the law and not make it up as they go along. I think the officer who violated Stanley on the street that day should have been fired straight away.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveM55 View Post
Stanley’s attorney tried once again in 2008 and La Crosse County Judge Ramona Gonzalez pointed to documented cases, when Bryan Stanley refused to take his medicine at Mendota. She denied his the request for release, indicating that there was no guarantee that if Stanley was released, he would stay on his medication.
As you said, Paul Harvey would say ''And now, the rest of the story."

Quote:
In recent years, Stanley has been given greater freedom as his schizophrenia has been managed with medication. He was moved to an unlocked, minimum security unit at Mendota in 2006 and has been allowed to work part-time in the community and take classes at a local technical college.

Two doctors one who treated Stanley at Mendota and another appointed by the court to examine him both supported his petition for conditional release. They testified he has a good chance of succeeding in the community as long as he takes his medications.

But appeals court Judge Burnie Bridge, writing for a unanimous three-judge panel, said Gonzalez was mistaken. Testimony showed Stanley had refused to take his medicine for one day in 1993 because it created harsh side effects; since switching medications 15 years ago, he has not refused.
From here

I certainly don't give a damn about Bryan Stanley, but if society is going to have a malice requirement for certain crimes (and I hope we will), and let people out of custody if they show they are not a danger, then Bryan Stanley seems like a good case for who should be let out. He was violently crazy, and according to the best experts he ain't no more.
__________________
I support Gerald Ung

Last edited by granuale; August 13th, 2009 at 08:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old August 16th, 2009
customloaded's Avatar
Super Member
PAFOA Platinum Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location:
Lakeview
Posts: 809
Rep Power: 458
customloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond reputecustomloaded has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Active shooter's release leaves community speechless

Perhaps the deputy had prior knowledge of the defendants mental status and thats why he inititated the interaction and arrest...just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old August 17th, 2009
tes151's Avatar
Super Member
PAFOA Silver Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Leader Heights, Pennsylvania
(York County)
Age: 49
Posts: 710
Rep Power: 93
tes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond reputetes151 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Active shooter's release leaves community speechless

If someone would do the research, and find this person, and make him disappear, that would just be a shame. Don't ya think?
__________________
" The Seeds of Oppression Will One Day Bear The Fruit of Rebellion."

3 %
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old August 17th, 2009
WhiteShadow's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location:
Out In The Sticks, Pennsylvania
(York County)
Posts: 641
Rep Power: 155
WhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond reputeWhiteShadow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Active shooter's release leaves community speechless

Whats an "active shooter"? Because at first, i thought they were talking about me!!
__________________
"A peaceful mind generates power"
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old August 17th, 2009
headcase's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
(Monroe County)
Age: 42
Posts: 5,099
Rep Power: 2025
headcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond reputeheadcase has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Active shooter's release leaves community speechless

As sad a story as that was, it is just as bad as the shit the anti gun crowd tries to trumpet in their fight. What was the expected reaction? Shock? Outrage? Over what? A mentally ill person is being successfully treated by all accounts and is at the point where his release will be better for him than confinement? A little research into the facts shows that the piece was written from a severely biased point of view. I agree with Granule, the sheriff's deputy should never have stopped the guy, and was very lucky his actions didn't just cause the shooter to be thrown back out on the street to kill again. Have you learned nothing about rights and due process on this site?
__________________

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty
than to those attending too small a degree of it."~Thomas Jefferson, 1791
Support this man Remember SFN Read before you Open Carry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'Senseless killing' takes man active in community Kodiak General 6 August 10th, 2009 10:42 AM
Active shooter training saves lives Dredly Training, Tactics & Competition 2 March 30th, 2009 10:02 AM
glock 21sf mag release interchangeable with standard release? TravisBickle General 2 March 20th, 2009 05:01 PM
Pennsylvania: Gun-toting woman divides community (Active Poll Attached) Lambo General 4 December 12th, 2008 03:44 PM
An Officer’s Firsthand Account of the Utah Active Shooter Incident DaveM55 General 9 March 27th, 2008 11:56 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Marketing Services provided by MergeMedia.