.223 is a bad round for home defense. (not!)

[ruggerio]

Originally Posted by synergy

Yeah, but you don't shoot firearms at people to make them sorry, you shoot them to make them stop whatever it was they were doing, which you think was worth shooting them for.

If you read the above posted article I quoted from Dr. GKR...you might understand why wounds from birdshot are not reliable fight enders.

right. based upon that neither are .45's.

i have seen large animals killed with bird shot, through a full choked shotgun within 20 yds the resulting wounds are critical.

[Rezin777]

I think we like to argue about what will do the job and what won't. We can put our favorites at the front and ridicule the choices we don't like.

Personally, it comes down to this. If I shoot at you, I intend you to permanantly cease and desist whatever ill deeds you intended to do while invading my personal property.

I will choose the most effective round in achieving that goal. The most effective round according to my knowledge/budget/availibility.

The more rounds I have, the better prepared I am. Excuse me Mr. Jury, was I keeping an arsenal, perhaps. Are my children alive. Yes.

Am I worried about overpenetration? Of course I am! But I'm more concerned about Johnny Badguy running off with my kids. If, in my humanly flawed judgement I maim, or God forbid kill, one of the good guys, in an attempts to ward off evil, I blame the evil that presented itself in the first place. Would you rather I watch with distaste as the evil doers carry off my property and/or family?

Choose what you will to defend yourselves. But remember, you are the one who made that choice and have to live with it.

While you can't know everything at once, a keen insight as to where you family might be, or a house design that leaves little room for error, could certainly go a long way, instead of wondering which round will get the job done.

[ruggerio]

Originally Posted by Rezin777

I think we like to argue about what will do the job and what won't. We can put our favorites at the front and ridicule the choices we don't like.

Personally, it comes down to this. If I shoot at you, I intend you to permanantly cease and desist whatever ill deeds you intended to do while invading my personal property.

I will choose the most effective round in achieving that goal. The most effective round according to my knowledge/budget/availibility.

The more rounds I have, the better prepared I am. Excuse me Mr. Jury, was I keeping an arsenal, perhaps. Are my children alive. Yes.

Am I worried about overpenetration? Of course I am! But I'm more concerned about Johnny Badguy running off with my kids. If, in my humanly flawed judgement I maim, or God forbid kill, one of the good guys, in an attempts to ward off evil, I blame the evil that presented itself in the first place. Would you rather I watch with distaste as the evil doers carry off my property and/or family?

Choose what you will to defend yourselves. But remember, you are the one who made that choice and have to live with it.

While you can't know everything at once, a keen insight as to where you family might be, or a house design that leaves little room for error, could certainly go a long way, instead of wondering which round will get the job done.

good points and in that vein , this is my housemate. purchased new on my 21st in 1987.

[RaisedByWolves]

Originally Posted by ruggerio

i have seen large animals killed with bird shot, through a full choked shotgun within 20 yds the resulting wounds are critical.

What would have happened if they had the ability to shoot back and were better armed?

[synergy]

Originally Posted by ruggerio

right. based upon that neither are .45's.

i have seen large animals killed with bird shot, through a full choked shotgun within 20 yds the resulting wounds are critical.

No, .45acp loads penetrate far enough to work....bird shot doesn't.

The picture in this thread was a 12ga load, choked plenty tight, at close range. You can see that it penetrated about 4-5"...that's not even enough energy to make it through the rib-cage.

Defensive rounds need to be more than "critical", they need to be capable of instant incapacitation.

[QuakertownRich]

Luckily for us, 99.999% of the ppl reading this will never have know whether we made right decision of which weapon to use for HD. My suggestion to all of you is this: Keep your doors and windows locked, be aware of your surroundings/neighborhood and what/who goes where. A yappy lil dog is as good as a GSD in the area of stranger approaching/B.E. alert, security lights on house perimeter, etc. Prepare your house j.i.c. of break-in when you're not home..IOW lock/hide all your guns/valuables up. Doing these few precautionary measures will greatly reduce your chances of having to actually defend your house with a shotgun/revolver/semi/rifle/AR/AK/bazooka.