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Originally Posted by 68FBJJZ109
In short, when excessive heat build ups excellerates the wear on any mechanical objects, which intern could cause them to fail in time. You can destroy a barrel rather quickly this way, this applies for other components of the firearm aswell. Excess heat build up could causes a round to cook off in the chamber. This is partly the reason why the M249 and M240 fire from the open bolt. Both of which are piston driven. So keeping heat buiuld up to a minimum is important. The heat also will break down lubricants (CLP), causing the performance of the rifle to degrad.
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Yup, but the M4 was designed as a semi-auto rifle, capable of firing auto if need be. But the sustainable rate of fire is 12-15 rpm...if you are getting it hot enough to cook off a round, you need to re-evaluate your tactics and equipment selection.
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As far as lubricating I did not say I do not lubricate the rifle, I mearly said CLP + Iraq = Headaches and nastiness. Not that I do not lubrucate it properly. Though the Lubrucants the attrach the extreme fine shit dust causing the weapons to become dirty which again runs the risk of the weapon failing when you need it. The advantage of the less heat with the piston gun is you can run a lighter coat which keeps the shit dust to a minimum. A DI rifle has the attracted dirt and the hot carbon to deal with. The ARs have very tight tolerance compared to its main opponent the AK 47. Though GP don't solve the dirt issue.
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Originally Posted by Larry Vickers
The topic of keeping a weapon dry in desert environments comes up quite often. Sand is the ultimate enemy of guns and can wreak havoc with modern small arms. I have been part of extreme weapons testing and can tell you that I have no doubt in my mind that in sandy environments you are much better of with a gun that is wet than one that is dry. Having sand coat your small arm like a sugar cookie with some lubricant still in place is a better situation than a completely dry weapon in a sandy environment. Your weapon may still malfunction but not anything like it would if it was bone dry. It is unbelievable how non functional a dry weapon can become in an extreme sandy environment. It will become manually operated at a bare minimum. Your best bet for a functional weapon in extreme conditions is to keep it lubed and keep it covered. It may take longer to employ the weapon depending on the cover used but it will most likely work when you need it to.
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And when I asked him a follow up question on his tip a while ago...
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generous lube is only a problem for concealed carry where it can stain clothes and the wrong lube (too thick for example) can gum up in the cold
other than that the whole thing about excessive lube attracting dust and sand has proven to be not a problem - tests have revealed that guns with alot of lube vs little to none work much better in sandy or dusty environments - debunking that myth completely
be safe and good luck
Larry Vickers
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Here is one of the published articles that Larry referenced.
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/20...cation_070716/
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Heavy lubrication shown to improve M16, M4 effectiveness
By Matthew Cox - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Jul 16, 2007 17:34:05 EDT
Army weapons officials might have found a way to improve the M16 family’s performance in the desert.
“Dust chamber” tests at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Md., last year show that M16 rifles and M4 carbines perform dramatically better when the weapon’s bolt assembly is heavily lubricated.
During each phase of the two-part “system assessment” at Army Test and Evaluation Command, testers fired 60,000 rounds through 10 weapon samples of each model.
Treated with light lubrication, new M16A4s and M4s, performed poorly in the extreme dust and sand conditions of the test, according to a January report from ATEC.
But when testers applied a heavy coat of lubrication to the weapons, the test results showed a “significant improvement.”
Out of the 60,000 rounds fired in each phase, the M4 stoppage-rate dropped from 9,836 with light lubrication to 678 with heavy lubrication.
The M16A4 stoppage-rate dropped from 2,124 with light lubrication to 507 with heavy lubrication, results show.
For years, Army weapons officials have preached to soldiers to virtues of applying a light coat of lubrication during weapons maintenance.
But the test results reinforce a recent change in weapons maintenance guidance Army units are practicing in Iraq and Afghanistan, said Col. Carl Lipsit, project manager for Soldier Weapons.
At the request of Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., the Army will conduct a similar dust-chamber test in August, pitting the M4 against the Heckler and Koch 416, the H&K XM8 and FNH USA’s Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle.
All of the participating weapons will be treated with a heavy coat of lubrication during the test, Lipsit said.
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So, between that, and the first hand account of someone who's had plenty of experience with the topic at hand...I hope that myth has been put to rest.
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Carbon build up will cause a weapon to malfunction, fail, or have a slowed or retard operating cycle. Even in a Piston gun, though an advantage of that is you can clean the piston, you cannot clean a Gas tube. Not at least on my or an operator level.
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As DPB noted, not even in one of the most sustained fire-fights in modern history, were enough rounds fired through the m4/m16 to build up enough carbon from the DI system, to cause an issue.
Also, the gas tube isn't something that EVER needs to be cleaned. Nothing can build up in there under the kind of pressure that blows through there with each shot (about 8k PSI in the M16, and about 14k PSI in the M4). A piston however, will need to get cleaned, and presents its own new set of issues regarding maintenance and failure points. It will also make rail systems heavier/ more complex, as you now need to create a system with moving parts (so the top rail can detach), and rails that are capable of "returning to zero", when cleaning is complete and they are reassembled.
Additionally, here is a thread where some of the issues with the systems are brought up, and end-user opinions are given.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=29852
July 19th, 2009
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