Should I move on to a turret or progressive press?

[Jim1911]

I am considering moving on to a faster press. I am undecided which way to go. My single stage press just cannot keep up with the amount of pistol ammo my “bottom feeders” consume.

Currently my biggest time consumer during reloading sessions is my obsession with getting the charge exactly right. I am scared that if I go to a progressive or turret I will gain very little because of my OCD with the powder.

Any thoughts to help me make up my mind would be appreciated.

[Xringshooter]

At this point in time it sounds like you have some experience handloading. A turret will marginally speed this up a bit, but not to the extent that it seems that you want. Make the jump to a progressive, it's time. You can get into progressives from a few hundred dollars to sky's the limit. I happen to be sold on Dillons, I would go with the RL550 or even maybe the RL650. The Square Deal B is a fine starter progressive (I have one and it has loaded over 100,000 competition .38 Specs so far with no problems or breakages.) I am thinking about going to a 550 to do my .45 acp (to start).

[Bama Man]

Originally Posted by Jim1911

I am considering moving on to a faster press. I am undecided which way to go. My single stage press just cannot keep up with the amount of pistol ammo my “bottom feeders” consume.

Currently my biggest time consumer during reloading sessions is my obsession with getting the charge exactly right. I am scared that if I go to a progressive or turret I will gain very little because of my OCD with the powder.

Any thoughts to help me make up my mind would be appreciated.

If your obsessed with the charge, and are determined to check each one, then go with a turret.
The Lee 3 or 4 hole turret press will allow you to remove the index rod, and stop the auto indexing so you can actually turn it into a "single stage" unit.
This will allow you to change the stage by hand in half a second, yet stay on a stage as long as you want.
If your going to check the weight of every charge, then, by all means, get an electronic scale, and a Lee perfect powder measure, or the RCBS or Lyman unit that is similar.
You can "dial" in your charge, then simply verify it quickly with the scale.
I am not saying this can't be done with a beam scale, but, the electronic scale is so much faster and precise.
The Lee turret press will also allow you to change cartridge dies in less than a minute, and is very inexspensive, yet very reliable.
If you looking to load a bit faster, but don't want the exspense or need the speed of a progressive press, the the turret would be the route I would go.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Jim1911

I am considering moving on to a faster press. I am undecided which way to go. My single stage press just cannot keep up with the amount of pistol ammo my “bottom feeders” consume.

Currently my biggest time consumer during reloading sessions is my obsession with getting the charge exactly right. I am scared that if I go to a progressive or turret I will gain very little because of my OCD with the powder.

Any thoughts to help me make up my mind would be appreciated.

Well, if you want to be fast with a single stage press, you need a system. Herewith follows mine, which I used for years, with quite satisfactory results.

I Deprimed and resized the whole bunch of empties of one caliber. All of them.
Picked them up with the left hand and inserted them into the press, and while the right hand was raising the ram, the left hand picked up the next round. I hooked a little cloth "apron" thingie around the press and attached it to the edge of the bench, and before inserting the second case, I sort of "flicked" the resized and decapped case out and caught it in the apron before inserting the next case. The whole batch.


Then, I cleaned, tumbled, etc.

Next operation was priming all of them in one batch. Again, flicking the primed one into the apron and inserting the next one. (The angular orientation of the shell-holder has a lot to do with speed and accuracy of "flicking" and speed and accuracy of case-insertion). It gets fast when you get accustomed to it. Become real friendly with your primer-feed system, too.


The next asumption is that you DO use a loading block, a sheet of 3/4" plywood with holes bored NEARLY through, and room enough between rounds to handle them with ease. (I don't mean one of those cheesy little "checkerboard" plastic blocks here.You must have room to grab a case without knocking its neighbor). If you have 1/2" holes on a 1" grid, that makes your board, at minimum with margins, the thing is 7 or 8 inches by 12 or 13. That gives room enough to handle things well, to see what your powder charges are, etc. It gives you room to place bullets as you do the cases in 50-round batches. Good for 38's, 9's and 45's. You set up 50 primed cases for each "batch" now.

You are with me so far, right ?

The assumption is that you use a Powder measure like The Pacific Bullseye (an older model) or its modern successor, the RCBS "Little Dandy" http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?c...prodID=RC86040
and that you hand-hold it and charge each of those fifty cases in the loading block in sequence, all as one operation. You CAN use a rifle-style measure, with a drum and charge-tube, but you need to use the small (pistol) charge tube and a longer drop-tube to accomodate the room needed for the crank - BUT it is slower as well as unhandy, and that's why I like the Pacific Bullseye. With these types of powder measures, the charge bars are a round bar with a knurl on one end for you to turn it, and a hole of a definite size bored into the bar to give an exact charge. That means you have to have a number of bars if you are loading a number of different rounds. Sometimes, you can use TWO CHARGES PER CASE of a smaller amount to achieve the desired charge, but this requires a degree of discretion and a lot of caution to accomplish correctly - best to have a charge-bar for each different load, but you can overdo this as RCBS makes about 75 different charge-bars at @$13-$15. I wound up with five custom-sized bars for 45 and 38.


The assumption continues that you then visually check all fifty cases with a flashlight after charging and see that the charges are all the same (no light charges, no doubles). The human eye is a truly remarkable "pattern-matching computer" when trained, and it is quite easy to spot discrepancies, especially when you select a powder that nearly fills the case for the load you are using. And that is a good thing for other reasons which are not germane to this discussion.

Next, place fifty bullets in the primed and charged cases as one operation (again, continuing with the "one batch of fifty rounds at a time" concept). This goes much better if you are careful to obtain a proper flare on the case mouoth so the bullet will sit IN the case and not ON>

Then, pick up one entire uncompleted round with case, primer, powder, bullet, and place it in the press, run the ram to seat and crimp while picking up the next uncompleted round and then "flicking" the finished round into the apron just prior to inserting the next set of components for seating and crimping.

No, of course, you will not equal the speed of even the least capable progressive press on a minute-by-minute basis. But you CAN significantly increase the speed of loading on a single-stage press, without sacrificing any safety or quality. In fact, if you are observant, you may even lessen the chances of "squib" or "double-charge" rounds.

This works well after you arrive at a load with which you intend to remain with. It does work for experimenting, if you are willing to make a fifty-round experiment.

And no, I did not think of this all by myself, though the apron is my idea. I was blessed to be around a lot of old guys who were competitors in the 50's and 60's, and they couldn't have done it either without a system.

All that being said, however . . . .

And even at the cost of a priogressive press, nowadays . . . . . . . .

And at the amount of shooting I do nowadays, . . . . . . . .

And I think of all that work I did for years . . . . . . . . . .

Nowadays, I am glad that I bought my LEE LOADMASTER. I love that thing.

Flash

[Xringshooter]

I missed the part about your concern with the powder charge. In all my time of loading for competition (I shot about 1200-1500 rounds per week, so I had to have a progressive) I NEVER had a light or double charge with my Dillon. I also never cleaned the primer pockets and that was my first concern (I used to clean every one by hand) but it turned out to be a non issue.

If you get a progressive, it will be slow at first because of your concerns, I know, it happened to me, but as you gain confidence that the machine works like it is supposed to, the speed will increase exponentially. The Dillion XL650 has an option for checking the powder level in your cases automatically as the case goes through the process.

[Grumpa72]

I use the Lee Classic Turret and I am very cautious with powder for obvious reasons. When I first started reloading a few months ago, I would weigh every 10th charge. As I got more comfortable with the apparatus and more trusting of the charges, I started doing every 20th or so. Now, when I start reloading, I throw two or three charges and then immediately dump them back in the hopper. Then I measure the next charge to verify the equipment. In the several thousands of rounds I have loaded I have not had any issues with under/over charging. In the hundreds of rounds I have weighed and verified, I have not had a single charge that is more than .1 grain off. I use Win 231 and a tenth of a grain isn't going to make or break my paper target shooting. For the record, I reload in the middle of the acceptable range of powder charge.

[Jim1911]

. Thanks for the input.

I understand the way turret presses work and I have never seen a progressive in operation. I know I could quickly adapt to a turret press but I was unsure about a progressive.

I watched a couple of videos on U-tube and it looks like the Lee progressives are nothing more than a turret press with a shell holder for each station Then I can deal with that also.

My current powder measurer frequently drops loads .2 or .3 grains light and sometimes .1 grain heavy. For 4.6 grain loads that is no big deal at 10 yards. The difference starts to show up at 15 yards and at 25 and further you are just guessing where the bullet is going. If I maintain exact powder charges I am deadly accurate out to 50 yards. My next range trip I am bringing some 4.6 and some 4.9 grain loads to see if I have some leeway there. Why cant loading for a 1911 be as simple as using a powder dipper for 38 specials?

With both presses, I could remove the powder measurer. At the end of an up stroke I can go through my powder measuring routine and hand pour it. Maybe if I bought a powder measurer made in the last 25 years I would not need my ritual.

I am still a little undecided but it looks like I am going to sell of some of my wolf stockpile to pay for a progressive




Hey flash, thanks for your routine. I will read it again right before I sit down at the press the next time. If you are not reloading at least 50 pistol rounds at a time with a single stage, you are wasting way too much time. Especially since my dies have to be adjusted every time I swap them.

[Fr0sty]

I have a Dillon 550 and couldn't be happier. When I am loading serious same hole rounds for my R700 I am using my RCBS Chargemaster to dispense my charges as the powder dumper on the Dillon isn't the best for some of the powders I use. That and I do clean the primer pockets and everything else in efforts to make each load identical.

When reloading 45 acp on my Dillon I found that the powder dispenser LOVES Titegroup. It throws very accurate charges less than .1 of a grain off. I load about 150rds every 20mins with it when I have brass already polished and ready to load. I do not clean my primer pockets while loading these rounds and to be perfectly honest, switching from WWB any other over the counter rounds to my reloads, my accuracy instantly went up. I am still a pretty bad pistol shot at 25yds, but lately I have been a hell of a lot better. I am loading 200gr SWCs with a min powder charge of Titegroup with excellent results.

You couldn't pay me enough to use another press. My little system I got going with my Dillon 550 is very fast, accurate, and an overall smooth process.

[andrewjs18]

Originally Posted by Flash

Well, if you want to be fast with a single stage press, you need a system. Herewith follows mine, which I used for years, with quite satisfactory results.

I Deprimed and resized the whole bunch of empties of one caliber. All of them.
Picked them up with the left hand and inserted them into the press, and while the right hand was raising the ram, the left hand picked up the next round. I hooked a little cloth "apron" thingie around the press and attached it to the edge of the bench, and before inserting the second case, I sort of "flicked" the resized and decapped case out and caught it in the apron before inserting the next case. The whole batch.


Then, I cleaned, tumbled, etc.

Next operation was priming all of them in one batch. Again, flicking the primed one into the apron and inserting the next one. (The angular orientation of the shell-holder has a lot to do with speed and accuracy of "flicking" and speed and accuracy of case-insertion). It gets fast when you get accustomed to it. Become real friendly with your primer-feed system, too.


The next asumption is that you DO use a loading block, a sheet of 3/4" plywood with holes bored NEARLY through, and room enough between rounds to handle them with ease. (I don't mean one of those cheesy little "checkerboard" plastic blocks here.You must have room to grab a case without knocking its neighbor). If you have 1/2" holes on a 1" grid, that makes your board, at minimum with margins, the thing is 7 or 8 inches by 12 or 13. That gives room enough to handle things well, to see what your powder charges are, etc. It gives you room to place bullets as you do the cases in 50-round batches. Good for 38's, 9's and 45's. You set up 50 primed cases for each "batch" now.

You are with me so far, right ?

The assumption is that you use a Powder measure like The Pacific Bullseye (an older model) or its modern successor, the RCBS "Little Dandy" http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?c...prodID=RC86040
and that you hand-hold it and charge each of those fifty cases in the loading block in sequence, all as one operation. You CAN use a rifle-style measure, with a drum and charge-tube, but you need to use the small (pistol) charge tube and a longer drop-tube to accomodate the room needed for the crank - BUT it is slower as well as unhandy, and that's why I like the Pacific Bullseye. With these types of powder measures, the charge bars are a round bar with a knurl on one end for you to turn it, and a hole of a definite size bored into the bar to give an exact charge. That means you have to have a number of bars if you are loading a number of different rounds. Sometimes, you can use TWO CHARGES PER CASE of a smaller amount to achieve the desired charge, but this requires a degree of discretion and a lot of caution to accomplish correctly - best to have a charge-bar for each different load, but you can overdo this as RCBS makes about 75 different charge-bars at @$13-$15. I wound up with five custom-sized bars for 45 and 38.


The assumption continues that you then visually check all fifty cases with a flashlight after charging and see that the charges are all the same (no light charges, no doubles). The human eye is a truly remarkable "pattern-matching computer" when trained, and it is quite easy to spot discrepancies, especially when you select a powder that nearly fills the case for the load you are using. And that is a good thing for other reasons which are not germane to this discussion.

Next, place fifty bullets in the primed and charged cases as one operation (again, continuing with the "one batch of fifty rounds at a time" concept). This goes much better if you are careful to obtain a proper flare on the case mouoth so the bullet will sit IN the case and not ON>

Then, pick up one entire uncompleted round with case, primer, powder, bullet, and place it in the press, run the ram to seat and crimp while picking up the next uncompleted round and then "flicking" the finished round into the apron just prior to inserting the next set of components for seating and crimping.

No, of course, you will not equal the speed of even the least capable progressive press on a minute-by-minute basis. But you CAN significantly increase the speed of loading on a single-stage press, without sacrificing any safety or quality. In fact, if you are observant, you may even lessen the chances of "squib" or "double-charge" rounds.

This works well after you arrive at a load with which you intend to remain with. It does work for experimenting, if you are willing to make a fifty-round experiment.

And no, I did not think of this all by myself, though the apron is my idea. I was blessed to be around a lot of old guys who were competitors in the 50's and 60's, and they couldn't have done it either without a system.

All that being said, however . . . .

And even at the cost of a priogressive press, nowadays . . . . . . . .

And at the amount of shooting I do nowadays, . . . . . . . .

And I think of all that work I did for years . . . . . . . . . .

Nowadays, I am glad that I bought my LEE LOADMASTER. I love that thing.

Flash

what you just listed is almost exactly how we reload fairly fast on a single stage press.

we deprime, tumble, prime, resize, expand, dump powder and seat the bullet in batches.

I'll tell you what though....

a few months ago, I primed about 500 9mm casings with a lee auto prime..I couldn't feel my hand for a few hours, but it was all worth it. hahahah

[hzox221]

Originally Posted by Flash

Well, if you want to be fast with a single stage press, you need a system. Herewith follows mine, which I used for years, with quite satisfactory results.

I Deprimed and resized the whole bunch of empties of one caliber. All of them.
Picked them up with the left hand and inserted them into the press, and while the right hand was raising the ram, the left hand picked up the next round. I hooked a little cloth "apron" thingie around the press and attached it to the edge of the bench, and before inserting the second case, I sort of "flicked" the resized and decapped case out and caught it in the apron before inserting the next case. The whole batch.


Then, I cleaned, tumbled, etc.

Next operation was priming all of them in one batch. Again, flicking the primed one into the apron and inserting the next one. (The angular orientation of the shell-holder has a lot to do with speed and accuracy of "flicking" and speed and accuracy of case-insertion). It gets fast when you get accustomed to it. Become real friendly with your primer-feed system, too.


The next asumption is that you DO use a loading block, a sheet of 3/4" plywood with holes bored NEARLY through, and room enough between rounds to handle them with ease. (I don't mean one of those cheesy little "checkerboard" plastic blocks here.You must have room to grab a case without knocking its neighbor). If you have 1/2" holes on a 1" grid, that makes your board, at minimum with margins, the thing is 7 or 8 inches by 12 or 13. That gives room enough to handle things well, to see what your powder charges are, etc. It gives you room to place bullets as you do the cases in 50-round batches. Good for 38's, 9's and 45's. You set up 50 primed cases for each "batch" now.

You are with me so far, right ?

The assumption is that you use a Powder measure like The Pacific Bullseye (an older model) or its modern successor, the RCBS "Little Dandy" http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?c...prodID=RC86040
and that you hand-hold it and charge each of those fifty cases in the loading block in sequence, all as one operation. You CAN use a rifle-style measure, with a drum and charge-tube, but you need to use the small (pistol) charge tube and a longer drop-tube to accomodate the room needed for the crank - BUT it is slower as well as unhandy, and that's why I like the Pacific Bullseye. With these types of powder measures, the charge bars are a round bar with a knurl on one end for you to turn it, and a hole of a definite size bored into the bar to give an exact charge. That means you have to have a number of bars if you are loading a number of different rounds. Sometimes, you can use TWO CHARGES PER CASE of a smaller amount to achieve the desired charge, but this requires a degree of discretion and a lot of caution to accomplish correctly - best to have a charge-bar for each different load, but you can overdo this as RCBS makes about 75 different charge-bars at @$13-$15. I wound up with five custom-sized bars for 45 and 38.


The assumption continues that you then visually check all fifty cases with a flashlight after charging and see that the charges are all the same (no light charges, no doubles). The human eye is a truly remarkable "pattern-matching computer" when trained, and it is quite easy to spot discrepancies, especially when you select a powder that nearly fills the case for the load you are using. And that is a good thing for other reasons which are not germane to this discussion.

Next, place fifty bullets in the primed and charged cases as one operation (again, continuing with the "one batch of fifty rounds at a time" concept). This goes much better if you are careful to obtain a proper flare on the case mouoth so the bullet will sit IN the case and not ON>

Then, pick up one entire uncompleted round with case, primer, powder, bullet, and place it in the press, run the ram to seat and crimp while picking up the next uncompleted round and then "flicking" the finished round into the apron just prior to inserting the next set of components for seating and crimping.

No, of course, you will not equal the speed of even the least capable progressive press on a minute-by-minute basis. But you CAN significantly increase the speed of loading on a single-stage press, without sacrificing any safety or quality. In fact, if you are observant, you may even lessen the chances of "squib" or "double-charge" rounds.

This works well after you arrive at a load with which you intend to remain with. It does work for experimenting, if you are willing to make a fifty-round experiment.

And no, I did not think of this all by myself, though the apron is my idea. I was blessed to be around a lot of old guys who were competitors in the 50's and 60's, and they couldn't have done it either without a system.

All that being said, however . . . .

And even at the cost of a priogressive press, nowadays . . . . . . . .

And at the amount of shooting I do nowadays, . . . . . . . .

And I think of all that work I did for years . . . . . . . . . .

Nowadays, I am glad that I bought my LEE LOADMASTER. I love that thing.

Flash

My head hurts reading that. I like my Dillon 1050, dump powder in, fill the primers and case feeder, check charge. Pull the crank until the buzzer goes off and refill the primers, repeat often. Continue until I run out of bullets. 3500 rounds in 4 hours on Saturday. Clean the press, put the cover on and shoot for a few months.