AR-15 OWNERS – take note of immanent PSP regulations changes

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by officer64

I have received no "official" notifications from PSP about this issue. Nobody has told me anything unofficially, for that matter. Other than our discussions here and what I discussed in the fall with the ATF in Pittsburgh, that's all I know from this crap.

As far as I'm concerned at this time, I'm going to do transfers and new purchases by the letter of the written law, period. If anyone tells me differently from a Commonwealth source, they had better be prepared to produce the revised law(s) so I can post it publicly in my office. I didn't spend several hours with my ATF compliance agent going over everything I could think of for no reason.

A long time ago, I learned in my job that "if it isn't in writing, it doesn't exist". If you didn't document it, you didn't do it. I was also taught that you cannot enforce unwritten laws or ordinances for the same reason. This is primarily in reference to the courts. Doesn't the same hold true here?

That's pretty much what I tell my dealer clients.

The PSP newsletter covers stripped receivers, so dealers should use the Record of Sale form for stripped receivers (and FWIW, ATF and the NFA agree with them, at least for virgin receivers not being "rifles"). But complete AR-15 type rifles are still rifles, there's been no written command from the PSP to dealers that complete rifles be treated as non-rifles. so for now, dealers should follow what's in writing.

If they disobey the written instructions, they risk much, if the PSP pushes it. Not just the suspension of their right to sell guns, but prosecution for unlawful transfers, a UFA violation.

But someone seriously has to instruct the head of the PSP that the same word means different things in different contexts. The fact that a receiver is a "firearm" for some state & federal purposes doesn't mean that it's a "firearm" for all purposes. That AR-15 "firearm" still can't be carried loaded in a vehicle, because there's a statute that covers guns "other than firearms". It can still be transferred FTF without an FFL. It can't legally be made into a handgun under federal law without a tax-paid Form 1, because it's not a "handgun" under anyone's definition.

Pawlowski has attorneys on staff, so they should be able to explain the proper way to parse the UFA: Take each provision in isolation; apply any special definitions to words that apply across the UFA, and amend them if special definitions apply within the provision under review. Where there's no explicit definition, use the common meaning. Then stop there; you can't start foraging around for bits and pieces from other statutes and use them to alter the meaning of the provision under review; you can't grab "or the frame or receiver" from another statute and import it to alter a defined word.

Sometimes the legislature screws up. You can't carry a "loaded" rifle in a vehicle (6106.1). "Loaded" is a defined term, but ONLY as applied to "firearms" (6102 Definitions). Rifles are not "firearms" in the context of 6102's definition of "loaded", because the default definition of "firearm" in 6102 applies to the definition of "loaded" in 6102, which means that "loaded" is undefined for purposes of 6106.1. When the Commonwealth prosecutes you for having a loaded magazine in the same compartment with your rifle, you can point out that the UFA doesn't define what a loaded rifle is.

The laws obviously have become too complicated when the head of the state law enforcement organization can't figure them out. I blame the whole "Alice in Wonderland" approach, which uses existing words and makes them mean whatever the legislature wants them to mean. When "silencers" became federal "firearms", and a sear became a "machinegun", the federal laws sort of lost intuitive meaning. And when the Pennsylvania UFA has a dozen different meanings for the word "firearm", sometimes just a paragraph apart, then law enforcement professionals start to lose their bearings, and citizens with just a casual acquaintance with statutes have no hope of even understanding the rules that they must obey under pain of prison time. And that's fundamentally unfair.

[WhiteFeather]

More updated info from news paper

State Police Acknowledge Error In Policy, But Defer To ATF


please read link it won't be here for long

http://www.potterleaderenterprise.co.../frontpage.pdf

The PDF article is to large to attach directly on PAFOA.
I will transcribe the text & post it soon for those that don't want to read the PDF.

Nice pictures of some bucks for those that view it, PSP is second article down.


LOTS OF WISDOM IN GUNLAWYER001 post

[gnbrotz]

Do you have the end of the article form page 12?

[jerkin]

The link is only to half the article, it is continued on pg.12.

Guess I'm too slow on the typing, lol.

[mrjam2jab]

Here...someone from huntingpa.com already typed it out...

State Police Acknowledge Error In Policy, But Defer To ATF
By Donald Gilliland, Managing Editor

Gun dealers no longer have to fill out a handgun Record Of Sale (ROS) form when selling certain long guns. Although that had been the case under state law for at least 14 years, the Pennsylvania State Police had begun requiring dealers to fill out the hand gun form when selling certain long guns such as the AR-15 and the Thompson Encore/Contender, which can be converted to handguns after sale.

Consider it a win for Representative Martin Causer, who went to bat for gun dealers - and the law - and pushed the issue with the State Police throughout 2009.
From the beginning, Causer insisted the State Police policy was contrary to established state law, which determines the difference between a handgun and a long gun as its length at the time of sale and which also prohibits the request of an ROS form for long guns.

While State Police Commissioner Frank Pawlowski in the end did not explicitly acknowledge that his agency - and multiple letters he himself had previously sent to Causer defending the policy - were in error, the effect is precisely that.

“In the end... I am satisfied that under both state and federal law, whether a weapon should be treated as a handgun or a long gun depends on its configuration at the time of transfer,” wrote Commissioner Pawlowski. “Our Firearms Division will be providing dealers with appropriate guidance in the near future.”

It was neither a short nor an easy fight, and the result - even though what Causer intended - raises troubling issues about the Pennsylvania State Police’s relationship - and possible dependence upon - the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF).


For months, the State Police claimed their policy was based - in part - upon “guidance” from the ATF, despite the fact the ATF is a federal agency, despite a decades-old federal Supreme Court case overruling a similar attempt by the ATF to restrict sales of such guns, and despite a 2003 opinion from the ATF unamiguously in support of Causer’s interpretation.

In the end, the State Police acknowledged their error not because they sought an opinion from the Pennsylvania Attorney General - as called for by state law - but because they requested a “ruling” on the issue from the ATF, and that ruling was in Causer’s favor.

The Fight

Causer first raised the issue in a letter to the State Police Commissioner in April.

Causer explained that gun dealers in his district “are being instructed to complete the ROS form in transactions involving long guns like AR-15s and Thompson Encores/Contenders... The State Police Firearms Unit has directed them to fill out the handgun form for the sale of these guns regardless of their actual barrel length.”

The Uniform Firearms Act defines handguns by length: “Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, and shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches.”

The law also specifically states “no application/record of sale shall be completed for the purchase or transfer of a firearm which exceeds the barrel lengths set forth.”

Why is it, Causer asked Commissioner Pawlowski, “that the State Police is instructing dealers in a manner contrary to the Uniform Firearms Act... What possible justification could the State Police have to contravene the unambiguous language of the UFA?”

“I hope,” wrote Causer, “that you justification goes beyond some ill-conceived argument that these weapons could be modified to fall within the definition. If that be the case, then I’m hard-pressed to see how virtually every rifle and shotgun wouldn’t suddenly meet the definition (of a handgun)... After all, anyone with half a brain and a modicum of talent can change the length of a barrel.”

That was April 13.

Causer got no answer from the State Police until June 26.

And the explanation was what he had anticipated.

Pawlowski confirmed that the State Police were requiring handgun registrations to be filled out for AR-15s and Thompson Encores/Contenders - because, he claimed, “The AR-15 is a weapon which can easily be converted from a rifle to a handgun and back again, as can the Thompson Encore/Contender.”

Pawlowski claimed that the policy was based - at least in part - on guidance from the ATF.

Pawlowski acknowledged the unambiguous language of the state law, but claimed the guns are “essentially unique weapons in that they literally can be modified in seconds and switched from a long gun to a (handgun) and back again at will.”

In a sharply-worded response, Causer informed the State Police their answer simply was not good enough.

“I find the two-and-a-half month’s wait for a response, especially a response that is the legal equivalent of ‘because we say so,’ wholly unsatisfactory,” wrote Causer.

He told Pawlowski “You read words into the law that do not exist... Wishful thinking cannot change the rules of statutory construction.”

“For 14 years, the law has remained constant,” said Causer. “For 14 years, your predecessors had no difficulty distinguishing between ‘handguns’ and ‘longarms.’ It seems that the only change that has occurred in all these years is a shift in political posture over what some might describe as ‘scary guns.’”

He again cited the state law, and because the State Police were claiming their policy was based in part on guidance from the ATF, Causer cited a federal Supreme Court case from the 1990s in which the ATF had attempted to treat the Thompson Contender in a similar fashion (as a short gun because it could be converted to one) and told Pawlowski “as the head of the Pennsylvania State Police, you must know that U.S. v. Thompson/Center Arms Co. culminated in the Supreme Court ruling in Thompson’s favor in 1992.”

Causer also quoted a 2003 opinion of the Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch of the ATF that “the configuration determines whether it is sold as a rifle or a pistol.”

Causer’s response to Pawlowski was signed by 28 other state representatives, including House Republican Leader Sam Smith, Republican Whip Mike Turzai, Rep. Matt Baker, and Rep. Kathy Rapp. Copies were also forwarded to the Governor and the Attorney General.

Commissioner Pawlowski responded that because the Supreme Court case dealt with federal law, it was “not determinative,” and asked Causer for a copy of the ATF opinion he cited because “our review of available material on the ATF’s website suggests that this opinion is not currently available online.”

In another sharply worded letter, Causer responded with a copy of the requested ATF opinion, acknowldeged he knew the Supreme Court case was “not determinative” in Pennsylvania, but told Pawlowski “I believe there’s a lesson in there somewhere.”

Causer also noted that despite Commissioner Pawlowski’s claims that PSP was reviewing the matter, PSP had in fact just sent guidance to gun dealers reinforcing the requirement to fill out an ROS form for Ar-15s and Thompson Encore/Contenders.

“Perhaps you misunderstood my concern (and the concerns of my colleagues),” Causer wrote. “Any shift in policy as it relates to the necessity to complete records of sale... is the subject matter of legislation, not the politically motivated machinations of the Pennsylvania State Police.”

“Up until your shift in policy,” said Causer, “a longarm was a longarm; and, a handgun was a handgun... But under your proposed policy, certain longarms are now handguns.”

ATF Ruling

Pawlowski had indicated that he understood opinions contrary to the State Police policy may exist, and therefore was “requesting a formal ruling from the ATF regarding the AR-15 and the Thompson Encore/Contender. This ruling should aid in determining an appropriate policy for the Commonwealth.”

That ruling from the ATF - dated September 18 - confirmed Causer’s interpretation, and Pawlowski subsequently informed Causer that he was now “satisfied” that Causer’s interpretation had been correct.

But it raises the question of whether the State Police follow state law as they are supposed to or whether they defer to the ATF, which is a federal agency with no jurisidction in interpreting state law for state agencies.

Causer raised this issue of the State Police’s apparent dependance on the ATF before the State Police asked the ATF for a “ruling” on the issue.

“I am struck by your insistence on contacting the ATF for ‘a formal ruling,’” wrote Causer. “Even more striking is your belief that ‘this ruling should aid in determining an appropriate policy for the Commonwealth.’

“Why a state agency like the PSP would establish a policy unsupported by state law and then hide behind the apron strings of ‘ATF guidance’ is astonishing. I think you and I understand that it is simply not within the province of the ATF to explain whether substantive Pennsylvania law allows the PSP to go beyond the federal law in its treatment of certain firearms.”

Causer told Pawlowski, “If you are truly confused as to the meaning of a law that your agency has had the duty to enforce since its passage fourteen years ago, I strongly encourage you to observe the direction provided in another state law and seek legal advice from a more appropriate source.”

Causer then cited the state law which says the Attorney General shall furnish legal advice concerning any matter or issue arising in connection with the exercise of the official powers or the performance of the official duties of executive agencies like the State Police, and which states if the agencies aren’t satisfied with the Attorney General’s opinion, they can seek a declaratory judgement from the Commonwealth Court.

“The PSP owes a duty to all Pennsylvanians to act in a manner consistent with Pennsylvania law and to engage in conduct that is above reproach - to proceed in a manner that is clear, transparent and intellectually honest,” said Causer.

After the final determination from Pawlowski, Causer said the PSP decision was “a big win for gun owners rights.”

He said, “The ATF letter reinforces what we have been saying all along. Maybe now the State Police will follow the law.”

But the fact it took a “ruling” from the ATF to accomplish that troubles Causer.

It’s a federal agency with no jurisdiction over state law. If the State Police had questions about state law, the proper procedure is to request an opinion from the Attorney General.

To the best of Causer’s knowledge, the State Police never did that. He said he spoke to the Attorney General’s office, and “the Ag’s office never heard from the State Police.”

Causer said he suspects that’s because “if they ask the advice, they’re bound to follow it.”

“It shows me exactly how political their policy really was,” said Causer. “They wanted to say they were hiding behind the ATF and hoped we’d just go away... but when pressed, even the ATF didn’t stand behind it.

“The administration really wants gun control laws in this state, and can’t accomplish that through the legislature, so they try to impose restrictions any way they can administratively. It’s pure politics.”

When the Leader-Enterprise contacted the State Police for comment on why they relied on an ATF interpretation of federal law to come to their conclusion, a spokesman said, “In complicated, technical matters involving firearms issues such as this, Pennsylvania and other states often rely on ATF for guidance. We appreciate Rep. Causer’s concern and input on this issue.”

[WhiteFeather]

Was just finish converting PDF to text of the whole article to post here

thanks mrjam2jab wish you would have been a day sooner

[AKsRule]

article copied - saved - reposted on other sites.

Thanks!

[WanderingFool]

Many thanks for all involved in this!

It was a good read and this is another "part of the Puzzle" as to what makes this website great!!!.

Hiding behind the apron strings.,,,hee hee! Go get-em.


Michael

[Dave in PA]

What the Legislature really needs to do now is apply some kind of sanction on the comish for failing to follow and uphold PA state law....you know,FAILURE TO DO HIS JOB!

[lilb93]

The state police love to make their own laws and then enforce them. We are in the towing busines (a long time favorite of controversy with the PSP) our local PSP just imposed towing rules stating a # and types of trucks that they want you to have to be on their rotation list. I would imagine that any licensed, insured business, would be elgible for their rotation list... up until last year we were for close to 30 years but now they are claiming that you have to have a "TOW" truck. We got rid of our Tow truck and went to a flat bed years ago.. now have a 2008 freightliner and a 2009 ford both cew cabs so it is not like we have old equpiment... any new vehicles with AWD or 4wd (very common in pa) can't be towed safely (due to transmission damage) the damage occurs from having 2 spinning/moving wheels and 2 stationary (on the wheel lift) This is stated in all towing manuals. This is why we switched the tow truck is obselete for small cars and trucks

But as for their new set of rules you have to have a tow truck when their is not really a purpose for it.

So dont think it is just guns they are after they are furthering their agenda in every aspect of local businesses and life.

They want to regulate everything...