Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
HB80 Signed by Governor Corbett!

Thanks to everyone's support of this bill, it has been signed into law by Governor Corbett. Municipalities can now be held liable for firearms laws on the books which are in direct violation of the state's preemption laws. To link to continuing discussion on the new law, CLICK HERE


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  #61 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2012, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

This turned into a train wreck. Sorry I posted the bit about ADA.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old December 27th, 2013, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

So, I've been trying to wrap my head around the thought process that goes into rationalizing trespass. I'm of the belief that unless you have permission, own it or lease it, you have no right to set foot or wheel on it. How do you end up with the belief that it's ok to use another's property, as long as they don't know about it? The common hunter/trespasser's refrain of "I ain't hurting nuthin." reminds me of my young son's response when he was caught doing something he knew he should not do. Would you want someone driving your car when you weren't using it without your permission? Ask for permission, have some respect for others.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old December 27th, 2013, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by pags View Post
So, I've been trying to wrap my head around the thought process that goes into rationalizing trespass. I'm of the belief that unless you have permission, own it or lease it, you have no right to set foot or wheel on it. How do you end up with the belief that it's ok to use another's property, as long as they don't know about it? The common hunter/trespasser's refrain of "I ain't hurting nuthin." reminds me of my young son's response when he was caught doing something he knew he should not do. Would you want someone driving your car when you weren't using it without your permission? Ask for permission, have some respect for others.
I do agree with you, but for rural areas where hunting is commonplace there is a court ruling that says that hunting on unposted lands is not criminal trespass. ...that there is a fare assumption that unposted lands is open for sporting usage.

The Game Codes though do require you to have permission of the property owner. ...but the ruling and that code are in conflict. Rulings generally win over law, but its not to say that you wont be cited and the ruling challenged in a higher court.

For other lands - yes, just merely being on someones property is common law / civil law trespassing. For it not to be a common/civil violation you need to have permission in some fashion - like, explicit or implied consent. Which in PA we address those forms of consent as "license" or "privilege".

License is a formal agreement either in written or spoken contract. Privilege is less formal, and typically is under the terms of usage of the facility - like an expectation that you will be doing business with an establishment. Both license and privilege are subject to terms of the property owner, his lawful representatives, and in the case of privilege, his lawful tenants.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old December 27th, 2013, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

Hey Foxfx ask yourself this question, would you like someone trespassing on YOUR property without you knowing about it at night with a firearm? Why not just invite all of your friends to hunt right along with you. You and the ones like you that makes it harder and harder every year to get on private property. Thankyou very much.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old December 27th, 2013, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

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Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
I do agree with you, but for rural areas where hunting is commonplace there is a court ruling that says that hunting on unposted lands is not criminal trespass. ...that there is a fare assumption that unposted lands is open for sporting usage.

The Game Codes though do require you to have permission of the property owner. ...but the ruling and that code are in conflict. Rulings generally win over law, but its not to say that you wont be cited and the ruling challenged in a higher court.

For other lands - yes, just merely being on someones property is common law / civil law trespassing. For it not to be a common/civil violation you need to have permission in some fashion - like, explicit or implied consent. Which in PA we address those forms of consent as "license" or "privilege".

License is a formal agreement either in written or spoken contract. Privilege is less formal, and typically is under the terms of usage of the facility - like an expectation that you will be doing business with an establishment. Both license and privilege are subject to terms of the property owner, his lawful representatives, and in the case of privilege, his lawful tenants.
I think we know that just because a court rules a certain way doesn't mean it's right. How absurd is it that property owners should have to post signs telling people they can't be on the property without permission? Why wouldn't it be assumed that if it's not yours you shouldn't be there? I guess that's just too logical for the legal system.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old December 27th, 2013, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

I think we should also know this is a thread from July 2009
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old December 27th, 2013, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

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Read below from 2 days ago, see if you can spot the subtle clue that I'm no expert in the ADA. You're an old guy, with cunning investigative skills and a vivid imagination. You can do it.

While you're at it, look at my user name and see if your psychic skills give you a clue about my area of vocational interest. I'll wait.



BTW, in my experience, people with handicaps, and people who are in protected groups that are perceived as being subject to invidious discrimination, often have bad interactions with others simply because of their bad personalities. You could be a gay black quadriplegic, but if you hypothetically demand special treatment in an obnoxious way, their hypothetical response is less due to your situation, and more due to you being an asshole about it. Ask anybody, a fat broad who tells the airline "you have to let me board first, you have to give me two seats, and if there's any resistance I'll sue your prejudiced asses into bankruptcy" is going to get some negative vibes that have nothing to do with her heiferness and everything to do with her personality.

I have no idea what your deal is at the gun club, despite your paranoid insinuations. But if they kicked you out without an explanation, it seems like maybe nobody wanted to talk to you any more. I know that's how I feel....and I notice that nobody else on PAFOA seems to be opening up a dialogue with you here.
you beat me to it. I was going to say that it was his personality likely got him kicked out of the club. that and the fact that he made his request through the ADA.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old December 28th, 2013, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

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you beat me to it. I was going to say that it was his personality likely got him kicked out of the club. that and the fact that he made his request through the ADA.
Well, your from Greensburg. Perhaps you know more than you post? Do you belong to this Club? My....that dog does look familiar. But then, you don't know me from a cake of soap, so how could you surmise that my "personality" likely got me kicked out of anywhere? And the "fact" that I made a request "through the ADA". What exactly does this mean to you? The "making of a request through the ADA?" Please tell me what that means to you.

But then, hell, this thread is a year old. Why drag up this old crap now? But, since your from Greensburg I'm laughing and spitting coffee at my computer. It's tough to type when coffee is on your keyboard.

Dave

PS, I've always preferred to have a conversation with someone vs. an argument. Conversations seem to develop into the exchange of understandings between both parties. But it's tough to have a conversation when only on party is willing to have it.
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Last edited by DavidTM; December 28th, 2013 at 12:50 PM. Reason: Many
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old December 28th, 2013, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

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I think we should also know this is a thread from July 2009
That has been resurrected more times from the dead than Jesus himself!
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old December 29th, 2013, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: PA trespassing laws

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That has been resurrected more times from the dead than Jesus himself!
Jesus only came back once... It was resurrected more times than the failing healthcare bill is a much better fit(probably because it will be resurrected again and again just like the healthcare bill in the future).
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