Bikes and carry law, right of way, Nat'l parks

[sttaffy]

So, I have a LTCF and I ride my bike every now and again. I live in Northern Liberties and I'm usually riding to center city. The easiest way is down 4th street and up 5th, but 5th runs through the historic district, which, if I'm not mistaken, is a national park ad off limits until the credit card / nat'l park carry bill kicks on (I hate legislators).

So, on a bike, what's the deal? A bike is considered a vehicle and you need a LTCF to carry on one, so does any sort of right-of-way provision cover a biker riding through a park, from one side to the other? I don't mean biking around Valley Forge or anything, but going from point a to point b through a park on public roads. I guess I could ask the same for a car, too - What kind of right-of-way does a car have in the nat'l park in CC Philly?

At what point is the legal line drawn between being in/on a vehicle and not? If you put your foot down at a stop light? If you get off to re-attach your chain? If you ride on the sidewalk for a block to avoid cobblestones? If it isn't legal to ride onto the sidewalk is walking your bike until you're past the cobblestones kosher, or have you dismounted and you're now on foot illegally carrying a gun in a national park (ironically spitting distance away from Independence Hall).

Thanks in advance for any help, It'd be nice not having to detour anymore.

[lildobe]

Originally Posted by sttaffy

At what point is the legal line drawn between being in/on a vehicle and not?

The simple answer is that we just don't know. There have been several threads where this has been debated. I tend to lean towards the more 'safe' interpretation that any time you have a firearm, and are operating a vehicle (and yes, bicycles are vehicles per PA Code) it is required that you have a LTCF.

Now, being that you are in Philadelphia anyway, you need a LTCF anyway, whether you care carrying open OR concealed.

As for carrying through the national park areas of the city, stay on the road and you are legal, just like driving through a national park. (Note: IANAL, but this is my interpretation of the rules as I have read them.)

[mjfletcher]

IANAL

Dobe already covered one point, the state viewing bicycles as vehicles, and I just wanted to add something that supports that. As a friend and a neighbor both learned, riding a bicycle while drunk is not permitted. Both got DUI's, one got a suspended drivers license the other got "no drivers license till you're 21."

Keep your bike on the street, obey all the traffic laws, and just ride through you should be fine, but it is Philly so you just never know.

[vmiwoulfe]

This is a really good question. Here's a link I dug up with the current law

Also, Here's the official map of the National Park

As you can see in the map, the streets are not considered by the NPS to be part of the park, therefore in your situation riding your bike armed on the street would NOT be a violation of Section 2.4.

But, that said, if you look at the Map for Valley Forge it looks like they consider several State Raods to be in the park. Would this make it illegal to carry on these roads? Not sure of the answer...

By the way, riding your bike on the sidewalk is illegal in Center City, also, the sidewalk on Chestnut St (where the cobbles are) is part of the Park so you couldn't carry either.

[sttaffy]

Thanks guys, that is exactly what I was looking for. Looks like I'm walking it over the cobbles for another 6 months or so.

[kaybur]

Originally Posted by sttaffy

So, I have a LTCF and I ride my bike every now and again. I live in Northern Liberties and I'm usually riding to center city. The easiest way is down 4th street and up 5th, but 5th runs through the historic district, which, if I'm not mistaken, is a national park ad off limits until the credit card / nat'l park carry bill kicks on (I hate legislators).

Thanks in advance for any help, It'd be nice not having to detour anymore.

Where do you carry your handgun while riding a bike? On your person, or in your bike bag?

I guess I have the same question while carring in a car. Does the handgun have to be on your person, or can it be just somewhere in the car?

ken

[Gunny1969]

Originally Posted by kaybur

Where do you carry your handgun while riding a bike? On your person, or in your bike bag?

I guess I have the same question while carring in a car. Does the handgun have to be on your person, or can it be just somewhere in the car?

ken

Inside the car is considered "concealed". So, feel free (if you have a LTCF) to put it anywhere you please inside the vehicle. Although it's been argued that you should keep it on your person.

[lildobe]

Originally Posted by Gunny1969

Inside the car is considered "concealed".

Not correct. Concealed Carry and Vehicle Carry are two SEPARATE types of carry as the law is written. While both require a LTCF, they are NOT the same.

18 Pa.C.S. §6106. (Firearms not to be carried without a license.)

(a) Offense defined.--

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who
carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a
firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place
of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and
lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony
of the third degree.

18 Pa.C.S. §6109. (Licenses.)

(a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall
be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about
one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.

Note the word "or" which separates Carry in a Vehicle and Concealed Carry.

[Gunny1969]

Originally Posted by lildobe

Not correct. Concealed Carry and Vehicle Carry are two SEPARATE types of carry as the law is written. While both require a LTCF, they are NOT the same.



Note the word "or" which separates Carry in a Vehicle and Concealed Carry.

Jesus, who cares? I see you have alot of time on your hands.

[sttaffy]

on my hip in an IWB holster. It's a kahr K-9, and black, so if my shirt rides up a bit someone sees the butt-plate of the magazine only. I usually tuck a little t-shirt under the clip to pin the shirt over the gun but people don't notice at all. I always have to rememeber though, that if I have to take a spill to land on my left side and not my right. All my weight coming down on a gun-shaped part of my hip would suck.

I guess bike carry could get interesting really quickly, like mounting a holster on the frame or something, heh.