Audio recording question. NON leo.

[BTA88]

Originally Posted by JCWohlschlag

This is incorrect. Pennsylvania is an all party state. Any people being recorded, if they have a reasonable expectation of privacy or possibly even a reasonable expectation of non-interception, must be reasonably notified of the recording for non-electronic communication or must consent to the recording for electronic communication.

We could argue till we're blue in the face, but in the end it wouldn't be worth a salt in the courtroom. I'll leave it at that, and keep my reply to myself.

[exceltoexcel]

they do not have to consent! they just have to be notified

[BTA88]

Originally Posted by exceltoexcel

they do not have to consent! they just have to be notified

You sure about that? (I'm sounding like someone else now lol)

In my research, everything I found (court documents, mostly) said "consent, consent, consent" not "inform"

[Jup06]

Originally Posted by BTA88

You sure about that? (I'm sounding like someone else now lol)

In my research, everything I found (court documents, mostly) said "consent, consent, consent" not "inform"

Well, what legally constitutes consent? When you call any of these mail-order outfits, they give the same old "being recorded for customer services purposes". Are you not consenting by staying on the line after you've been notified?

[JCWohlschlag]

Originally Posted by BTA88

We could argue till we're blue in the face, but in the end it wouldn't be worth a salt in the courtroom. I'll leave it at that, and keep my reply to myself.

I have no intention of arguing. Your previous post indicated that your understanding of the need to inform or get consent from other parties is fine. It is only the “one party” terminology that is incorrect.

Originally Posted by BTA88

If you're in someone's private office or home, you must ask for their consent.

If Pennsylvania were a “one party” state, then you would indeed not need to inform or ask for consent to record someone else in their private office. In a “one party” state, when you, yourself, are one of the parties being recorded, you are the “one party” that consents to the recording. The reason you need to ask other people for consent when recording both them and you is because Pennsylvania is an “all party” state.

On every external resource I can find on the subject, Pennsylvania is listed as an “all party” state:

• The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press — “Can We Tape?”: Quick Chart
• The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press — “Can We Tape?”: Pennsylvania

  It is a felony of the third degree to intentionally intercept, endeavor to intercept, or get any other person to intercept any wire, electronic, or oral communication without the consent of all the parties. 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5703(1).

• Wikipedia — Telephone Recording Laws: Two Party Consent States

  Twelve states currently require that BOTH or ALL parties consent to the recording. These states are:

  • California
  • Connecticut
  • Florida
  • Illinois
  • Maryland
  • Massachusetts
  • Michigan
  • Montana
  • Nevada
  • New Hampshire
  • Pennsylvania
  • Washington

• American Legal Guide on Recording Telephone Conversations (USA): State Laws (Table)

  States Requiring Two Party Notification
  

  • California
  • Connecticut
  • Delaware
  • Florida
  • Massachusetts
  • Maryland
  • Michigan
  • Montana
  • New Hampshire
  • Pennsylvania
  • Washington

• And the ultimate authority for such contention, the actual state statute itself…

  18 Pa.C.S. § 5704
  

  • Title 18 Pa.C.S. Crimes and Offenses
    • Part II. Definition of Specific Offenses
      • Article F. Offenses Against Public Order and Decency
        • Chapter 57. Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance
          • Subchapter B. Wire, Electronic or Oral Communication
            • § 5704. Exceptions to prohibition of interception and disclosure of communications

  It shall not be unlawful and no prior court approval shall be required under this chapter for:

  …

  (4) A person, to intercept a wire, electronic or oral communication, where all parties to the communication have given prior consent to such interception.

  …

In a “one party” state, only one party being recorded needs to consent to the recording, and you, yourself, can be the consenting party if you are a party to the recording. In an “all party” state, like Pennsylvania, all parties being recorded must consent to the recording.

[exceltoexcel]

if you look at several of the threads the law doesn't apply if a person has no reasonable expectation of privacy or interception. if you tell them they are being recorded they have no reasonable expectation of non-interception