Safeties... Who needs 'em?

[josh]

I guess whatever works for you. I carry all single action autos. they are cocked and locked. It doesnt take me any time to flick the safety off. But If I carried double action autos I may not use the safety. The small keltec p32 my wife carries has no safety just a long double action trigger pull.

[TRB]

The answer to the question, "Safeties, who needs 'em?" is: Everybody. The second answer renders the question moot: You are using them whether you know it or not.

There are passive safeties and active safeties. An active safety is one that the user must operate. The decocking lever on a Sig or the thumb safety on a 1911 are examples of active safeties. A passive safety is one that is operated automatically as a part of the machine. These are typically internal and not seen. If the pistol is a Glock or a S&W M&P, for instance, the user is employing a safety(ies) whether they realize or desire it. There are few, if any, modern auto loading pistols that do not have a safety. The same is true for the modern revolver which typically employs one or another internal passive safeties to render the machine drop safe. Therefore, the vast majority of people who use and carry handguns are employing safeties.

As for the use of active safeties, since most, if not all modern pistols are designed to be drop safe the idea that having a safety on is rendered moot. The obvious exception is a single action auto that, if cocked, must be carried with the safety on. But even with the thumb safety in the off position the 1911 is still drop safe because of an internal passive safety. Other auto loading pistols with exposed hammers must be decocked before being holstered.

Decocking devices are either single stage or two stage. The single stage decocking lever returns to the original position. Most often, there is no other manual safety. It is typical of this system that the first shot will be double action with a long trigger pull and subsequent shots will be single action. That means that the hammer will be cocked by each shot. It must be decocked before reholstering or an unsafe condition exists, identical to carrying a 1911 cocked and off safe. If the decocking lever is employed on a single stage like a Sig, nothing else need be done. A two stage decocker shares the long self-cocking trigger pull with the single stage decocking pistol. The follow up shots will also be single action. It must also be decocked before reholstering or an unacceptable, dangerous condition exists. If it is a two stage decocker, like some S&W's, Rugers, H&K's, and others, the lever should be returned to the off safe position before being holstered, rendering it in the same condition as the single stage decocker.

Pistols with passive safeties only need do nothing.

[bogey1]

Originally Posted by TonyF

Can you clarify what pistol and what condition?

If some of you guys are carrying 1911's off safe ....................... .

If some of you guys are carrying DA/SA auto-loaders decocked and "off safe" then that is another matter altogether.

We had a fellow attended our three day pistol class a couple of years ago who was carrying a S&W DA/SA with the hammer cocked (e.g. yes Virginia, as in not decocked). He carried it at work that way (M.D. in a local Pittsburgh area hospital).

i carry a tokarov (i think thats how its spelled) double action, one in chamber, safety off. now when im hunting i always have the safety on. too many branches and what not to hit the trigger.

[RoyJackson]

Originally Posted by bogey1

i carry a tokarov (i think thats how its spelled) double action, one in chamber, safety off. now when im hunting i always have the safety on. too many branches and what not to hit the trigger.

That's a good point, especially for folks who carry a Glock in the woods. I'm not a hiker, but when I carry a Glock (which is fairly often), I carry in a holster that covers the trigger (which I am sure most folks do) as well as a retention strap.
Although I don't hike, I do brush cut (on a tractor with a bush hog behind it) and you are certainly correct about how branches can get anywhere and everywhere.
Even a retention strap isn't 100% so you've got to be aware of your gun.
If I was going to carry a gun in the woods (hiking), I think the safest way would be one of those military style holsters with a flap.

BTW, I do carry a .38 while I'm on the tractor...that's in a pocket holster. Since I've also got a seat belt on, it's a slow draw...but where I cut is safe enough. The gun is mostly for critters.

[dnar]

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Be safe, know your gear and everything should be fine for everyone.

I agree!

Lycanhasthewisdomoftheagesthrope

[TravisBickle]

I agree that safeties are unnecessary on double action autos with decocking safties like the 92fs, for example. I simply decock them and then carry them with the safety off.

HOWEVER,

You are a damned fool if you carry a 1911 or Hi-power with the safety off. It's also very stupid to leave an 870 (just an example) chambered with the safety off. You WILL eventually have a negligent discharge at some point if you do this regularly.

[RoyJackson]

Originally Posted by MorganB

I agree that safeties are unnecessary on double action autos with decocking safties like the 92fs, for example. I simply decock them and then carry them with the safety off.

HOWEVER,

You are a damned fool if you carry a 1911 or Hi-power with the safety off. It's also very stupid to leave an 870 (just an example) chambered with the safety off. You WILL eventually have a negligent discharge at some point if you do this regularly.

Or any other shotgun...

[bogey1]

Originally Posted by RoyJackson

That's a good point, especially for folks who carry a Glock in the woods. I'm not a hiker, but when I carry a Glock (which is fairly often), I carry in a holster that covers the trigger (which I am sure most folks do) as well as a retention strap.
Although I don't hike, I do brush cut (on a tractor with a bush hog behind it) and you are certainly correct about how branches can get anywhere and everywhere.
Even a retention strap isn't 100% so you've got to be aware of your gun.
If I was going to carry a gun in the woods (hiking), I think the safest way would be one of those military style holsters with a flap.

BTW, I do carry a .38 while I'm on the tractor...that's in a pocket holster. Since I've also got a seat belt on, it's a slow draw...but where I cut is safe enough. The gun is mostly for critters.

i think i have to invest in a holster. i carry in the waistband. i just dont like the strap around my shoulder.

[SSCUSTER]

Originally Posted by General Geoff

I do not use firearm safeties. I keep all of my firearms with the safety OFF at all times. To me, it's an unnecessary device that complicates and confuses what could be simpler.

General Geoff, you remind me of my grandfather. He was a carpentry teacher at a vo-tech school. He removed all safety devices and blade covers from all of the saws. He could get away with this back in the 60s and 70s. His idea was that a danger you can see is one you will be careful about. It must have worked because his classes always had outstanding safety records.

Knowing my grandfather the students were probably more frightened of the ass chewing they would get from Granddad after they cut off their finger than they were of losing a finger.

Everyone, please forgive my non-firearms reminiscing.

[bogey1]

Originally Posted by SSCUSTER

General Geoff, you remind me of my grandfather. He was a carpentry teacher at a vo-tech school. He removed all safety devices and blade covers from all of the saws. He could get away with this back in the 60s and 70s. His idea was that a danger you can see is one you will be careful about. It must have worked because his classes always had outstanding safety records.

Knowing my grandfather the students were probably more frightened of the ass chewing they would get from Granddad after they cut off their finger than they were of losing a finger.

Everyone, please forgive my non-firearms reminiscing.

i grew up that way.. its amassing that kids have to wear a helmet to ride a bike today. what is the street harder?