Safeties... Who needs 'em?

[RoyJackson]

Depends on the gun and the trigger and the intended use.

1911's, I like to use the safety. But I don't carry 1911's.

Glocks and Kahrs...nope, don't have a safety and don't need one. I carry one or the other of these frequently.

I know that seems like a contradiction, but the 1911 trigger has less travel and since I carry one of the other two most frequently, I'm just more used to the longer trigger travel. So...not using the safety on a 1911 is a recipe for an ND (for me).

I especially do not like a magazine disconnect type safety.

[soberbyker]

Originally Posted by Skuggi

.... I'm not saying it's foolish, but I dont like how "Safe" people feel with safeties.

Funny the things you can remember, reading this I immediately thought of an old "Barney Miller" episode. "Barney Miller" was a TV sitcom in the late 70's centered on a detective squad. In the episode I remember the men were being told they now have to wear "bullet proof vests". One of the detectives, "Wojo" Didn't want to wear one. IIRC the reason was he didn't want to feel invincible.

I understood that, as I understand the statement Skuggi made. Feeling safe does not mean let your guard down. Treat every gun as ready to fire, safety on or not. I too have a Kahr, no safety, long trigger, like a revolver. I love the gun. I have tried a 1911 and and few Glocks. First time I shot them, having only shot my Kahr and revolvers prior, I fired way before I expected it, it startled me, and although I liked the rapid fire capabilities of those guns over my Kahr I don't know how safe those very short triggers are, and I really don't understand how a safety in the trigger can be safe, like the Glocks have. But Baskin Robbins had 31 flavors because folks like different things. I love my Kahr, there are folks very passionate about their chosen weapon as well, and all of them can be safe. Practice a lot, know your gun inside and out, never forget to treat it as if it's ready to fire, and NEVER, NEVER feel invincible, just because you have a weapon.
.

[TonyF]

You have the right attitude about mechanical safeties but the reality is that there is no time penalty involved disengaging the safety going from any of the *ready positions* (low, high, indoor, retention) to sights on target.

There are also times when engaging the safety is a MUST. Transitioning to the secondary (handgun) when the primary (rifle / shotgun) malfunctions involves slinging the primary. If you are in the habit of not engaging the safety and the malfunction is simply operator error, you now have a hot weapon and the potential for something to find its way into the trigger guard that could cause an ND.

Again, I admire the attitude, but in practice it is not advisable. We'd have a HUGE problem with a student in any of our classes not following the philosophy and protocol of engaging the safety (1911 or long gun) or decocking a DA/SA when not on target.

[TwistedCopper]

Originally Posted by General Geoff

I don't like safeties, because I want to know exactly what condition my firearm is in at all times

If you don't know what "condition" your firearm is in, it's not because it has or does not have a safety. It's a result of a lack of awareness or a lack of being consistent in handling it.

As for liking them or not, to each his own.

[JustinM]

[Azzy]

I was always taught that my best safety sits 3 feet above my ass...

That said, I will use them if they are on the gun, and wont fret if it doesnt have one.

[mauser]

I would certainly hope that anyone out hunting for game would use their safety, especially while walking.
I realize that you're refering to range and protection carry, and I can see the pro's and con's of both sides of that argument, especially considering what type of carry gun is involved and your own training/experience.
When I'm at the range I don't load my gun until It's time to fire, that's my safety. I shoot mostly bolt action rifles, one round at a time. When I shoot my Mini-14 or one of my pistols, the magazine goes in when I get into position, I chamber a round when it's time to fire. If I don't empty the magazine, I'll eject it and clear the chamber until it's time to fire again.
My carry guns don't have external safeties, the tonnage on the DA trigger eliminates the need.
Home protection guns are kept out of sight, loaded, with the safeties on, if they have them. (I'm kinda partial to revolvers).

[Frenchy]

Well, in the past month, I must have practiced with the ol mossberg a lot since last year, because 2 people found the safety on that shotgun was just off all the time but the gun would nto shoot the second round...


To both I had to say IT'S A PUMP!!!

Last one I shot a whole round of skeet before having him try the gun he never noticed I was pumping the thing... Gave him 2 bullets, in the gun, bang hmmm whats up... Pump! oh yeah. He said I was so swift with the slide he never actually noticed me doing it.

On the Mossberg I never use the safety, although it is in an easy place, over the tumb, rev's no safety, Sigma, trigger safety, the Remington 20 has a safety, but as I hunt and shoot in the Canadian way, the safety is always off, and I HATE the new Key thing that goes in there to lock the safety. Neos has a safety, I remember taking it off, yet I never remember taking it off, I think its just the way i was trained, pickup, safety off while pointing...

[TheF00L]

I don't like safeties, because I want to know exactly what condition my firearm is in at all times, and that pulling the trigger will result in the hammer/striker being dropped.

By the sound the above quote I assume that you do carry w/ one in the chamber.
But the quote below sounds like your guns have an empty chamber -- ie. your long guns.

I don't want to be in need of a firearm in my house, and lock/load one, only to pull the trigger without result.

I carried a glock 27 for 7 years and was 100% comfortable w/ one in the chamber and the trigger being my only safety. I obviously have no problem w/ "no external safety" on specific guns. Currently I carry a 1911, C&L and would not be caught dead w/o the thumb safety on.

I will NOT criticize your choice of safety or no safety. I will QUESTION POLITELY the reasons for not having

I do store my long guns either unloaded or loaded with an empty chamber (in the case of my HD shotgun

any weapon intended for defense - home defense or concealled carry defense - without one in the chamber. Wracking a slide or a pump to load one in the chamber just advertises where you are - not to mention taking up valuable time! And if you are in a situation where surprise and concealment might be your only advantage -- I believe you should re-think having one in the chamber. You could do this safely by having one round chambered and having the safety on.

Is there a reason you do not have one chambered in your HD shotgun?

I also would like to ask if you practice w/ your defensive weapons on a regular basis? The reason I ask this is because when I practice I have a routine for each weapon. With my CC weapon IF I AM DRAWING it means that I intend to use my weapon so my thumb safety is clicked off w/ the draw. My finger is not yet on the trigger at that point. With my HD shotgun - the second i pick it up the safety goes off - again however my finger is not yet on the trigger.

And last question: Do you carry concealled and if so, do you carry w/ one in the chamber?

Granted I might be reading too much into this post. I just got up and am only on my first cup of tea. I am trying to understand.

[General Geoff]

I practice regularly with my carry weapon, yes. I carry concealed or open, depending on the day and my wardrobe. Simple leather thumb-break strap holster on my right hip. Standard operating procedure is that neither the weapon nor the holster is touched (accidentally brushing it doesn't count!) until I feel threatened. If I feel like a threat is imminent, I may break the strap on my holster before drawing, and only if the imminent threat would not notice. I've only ever done this once, and it turned out to be a false alarm (thank heavens). Drawing the weapon means I'm firing when the sights line up on target. I'd like to afford the target the luxury of a verbal warning before I fire, but I know that's not always a possibility.

Next. HD weapons. My house is situated so that my bedroom maintains a strategic vantage point over the rest of the dwelling. If there are people in the house who don't belong here, and I know it, I could care less if they know where I am. Racking the slide on my shotgun alerts them to two things:

1. There's someone home
2. They're armed with a shotgun.

Most burglars don't want either, so they're very likely to hightail it out of there at that point (statistics will back me up here). If they don't, it's their asses on the line. I have the home turf advantage.

I know what you're thinking, "Damn this guy's cocky!" I'd consider it more of a dead-set confidence. If any event like the above ever occurs, I'll certainly let you know how it turns out.

Another tertiary reason for not having a round chambered in my long guns is that of floating firing pins. I just feel uneasy with a round chambered and me not actively in control of the weapon (i.e. holding it).

Oh, and as said in my previous post, yes I carry, round chambered. My SW99 has no external safeties, just DA trigger on the first shot with the striker decocked.