why are some gun owners biased against foreign guns?

[ExTxN]

Originally Posted by etep513

That's the problem with you people. You don't realize that not everyone has access to the same opportunities that you do (or disabilities prevent them from harnessing those opportunities). I used the example of my autistic brother to show you. Plus, many right wingers in America claim to follow Christianity. Why is it that those same people ignore Christ's call to charity?

I also can't follow your "you people" characterization. You mean, as in, "You uncharitable, unwashed, uneducated...", or just anyone who doesn't swallow the liberal pap? And how do you know or have any accounting for my charity, and who it goes to? I think you need to calm down a moment.

Nearly every family, every member on these boards, and every neighbor you know has or knows of a special needs person. Does that make you more qualified to judge our charitable nature or lack of it? What about 'judge not...', or do you only selectively apply God's word and directives? I give as a result of my own inclinations and conscience, not at the direction of the federal government or any other agency-except His.

Cuba is communist (totalitarian socialist), not democratic socialist. In practice, Cuba's system is more closely related to feudalism than it is to socialism. Plus, what is wrong with the government helping disabled people? Guilty of identification faux pas as charged, Comrade. But, still, socialist, ?Si?

And, what is wrong with helping your own family, disabled or not, by working a little harder or working a second job? That's tough, I know, but what obligates everyone else to carry your burden? That's done by people who volunteer to, not who are forced to. Are you advocating government force to make me help you?

Let's go back to my earlier suggestion that those who are unhappy with this system, country, society, and it's problems and quirks find themselves a New Utopia to call home. That's what my Moravian ancestors did when they packed all their crap in two trunks and rode behind the engine room for several weeks to get here...you that sick of 'here' yet?



And, we should all apologize for the post hijack. Seems politics set off a fire wherever they go.

Take care
Dave

[d90king]

The U.S is the most charitable nation in the world. PERIOD! For the record its not even close...

[Paradigm]

Originally Posted by etep513

In what way does America have better principles? If anything, Europe has better principles since they have better environmental policies, they do more to avoid unnecessary wars, they abolished the death sentence (a punishment that mostly impacts poor inmates in America who never really had a shot at life), and more is done to make sure that children do not live in abusive homes. That just scratches the surface.

If anything Europe (I'm generalizing here) has better principles than America. Yes, the taxes are higher and the government is more bureaucratic, but that is what it takes to accomplish those goals.

Out of curiosity, what college did you attend and when did you graduate?

[7998]

Originally Posted by Paradigm

Out of curiosity, what college did you attend and when did you graduate?

I was curious about that myself. And what did you get a degree in?

[etep513]

Originally Posted by JoeWilliams

The basic dishonesty of the OPs arguments that Americans are somehow biased against foreign guns can be amply illustrated by the popularity of Glock, XD, Sig, Beretta, Bersa, and other foreign firearms. He merely created an argument out of thin air to justify a launch pad for anti-American arguments, with flagrant disregard for the facts. Typical tactic for leftists and Obama worshipers.

I think a more interesting question is why someone with so obvious a hatred for our way of life is still in this nation? Plane tickets are cheap, and there's no wall holding anyone here... exiting is simple. So, if it's so bad, why stay here? Take your family members to Europe where the standard of care is apparently more suitable for them, and the lifestyle one more to your taste... unless, of course, the higher taxes you keep passing off so blithely are a bit much for you? Of course, there's certainly no obligation for those who hate us to leave. Part of our way of life is that we welcome even those who spit on us.

I never said that all Americans were biased against foreign products. Only a small minority of Americans have that bias. I brought this topic up since some people were telling me to avoid foreign made handguns since that would send jobs overseas. I was not planning on starting a political debate. However, one poster started talking about how America is the greatest. Each nation has its pros and cons. If you look at it solely from a military perspective, America is one of the greatest nations since its geography and resources make it a formidable military power. If you look at it from other angles, America isn't the greatest.

The main reason why I'm not leaving is that I'm not the only one who feels this way. Many other people also feel that there are problems with America and that's how Obama got elected. I don't agree with everything that Obama supports (abortion, gay marriage, increased secularism, stem cell research, etc). But I certainly agree with him about progressive taxation.

Originally Posted by ExTxN

I also can't follow your "you people" characterization. You mean, as in, "You uncharitable, unwashed, uneducated...", or just anyone who doesn't swallow the liberal pap? And how do you know or have any accounting for my charity, and who it goes to? I think you need to calm down a moment.

Nearly every family, every member on these boards, and every neighbor you know has or knows of a special needs person. Does that make you more qualified to judge our charitable nature or lack of it? What about 'judge not...', or do you only selectively apply God's word and directives? I give as a result of my own inclinations and conscience, not at the direction of the federal government or any other agency-except His.

Cuba is communist (totalitarian socialist), not democratic socialist. In practice, Cuba's system is more closely related to feudalism than it is to socialism. Plus, what is wrong with the government helping disabled people? Guilty of identification faux pas as charged, Comrade. But, still, socialist, ?Si?

And, what is wrong with helping your own family, disabled or not, by working a little harder or working a second job? That's tough, I know, but what obligates everyone else to carry your burden? That's done by people who volunteer to, not who are forced to. Are you advocating government force to make me help you?

Let's go back to my earlier suggestion that those who are unhappy with this system, country, society, and it's problems and quirks find themselves a New Utopia to call home. That's what my Moravian ancestors did when they packed all their crap in two trunks and rode behind the engine room for several weeks to get here...you that sick of 'here' yet?


And, we should all apologize for the post hijack. Seems politics set off a fire wherever they go.

Take care
Dave

I mean "you people" as in all of you who oppose helping the poor and disadvantaged of American society. If you were charitable, then you would not be hostile to progressive taxation that would be used to help less fortunate individuals.

When Christ told people not to judge, he specifically told them not to judge hypocritically. Christ did not imply that his followers should ignore wrongdoing when they see it.

With regards to Cuba it is part socialist and part feudalist (since you have the communist hierarchy that closely resembles the nobility).

With regards to working harder, you underestimate the magnitude of what some people have to go through. The average cost of all the services needed to take care of 1 (one) autistic child is about $5 million (for the lifetime of that child). That is beyond what most people can afford. You asked why the rest of society should care. The rest of society is obligated to help since my brother became autistic after receiving an MMR vaccine. The government mandates MMR vaccines in order to be able to enroll in a public school. That is the reason why. This is not limited to autistic children. Have you ever heard of something called the Orphan Drug Act. Basically, there are some diseases that are so rare that pharmaceutical companies don't even make drugs for them (since there is no economic incentive). The government had to pass a law just to get those companies to make those drugs. What do you think it is like to be one of those people who suffer from an orphan disease.

Also, if you read the Old Testament, you would know that Hebrew law required field owners to leave part of their harvest behind for the poor. By your standards, were the Israelites also marxists since the government forced people to be charitable?

Originally Posted by Paradigm

Out of curiosity, what college did you attend and when did you graduate?

Originally Posted by 7998

I was curious about that myself. And what did you get a degree in?

As a matter of fact, I'm in college right now (Bloomsburg) and I'm studying criminal justice.

When I was talking about foreign guns (before the discussion went off topic), I recalled one of the lessons that I learned in my high school AP economics course. The text book explicitly stated that greater economic efficiency is achieve if nations specialize in the production of goods (and trade with each other) instead of having each nation trying to produce everything it needs by itself.

With respect to Obama, college students love him (no joke). Virtually everyone voted for him (with a few students here and there who voted for McCain. I didn't bother voting since I was dissatisfied with both of them (for me, Obama is to secular and McCain is too uncharitable).

I actually know some people who are HARDCORE SOCIALISTS. You people are claiming that I'm a hardcore socialist, when in reality you don't know what socialism is. A true socialist would be advocating for government controlled businesses (not just government regulated businesses), separation of religion and politics (far beyond separation of church and state), stem cell research, easy access to abortions, gay marriage, the suppression of religion, and progressive taxation that is so extreme that businesses cannot function.

I support none of the things that a regular old socialist would support. Yes, I support progressive taxation, but not to the point that businesses fail.

[jmiro]

The phrase "you people" is not correct in any context. When speaking of social justice it is just down right wrong.

[Paradigm]

Originally Posted by etep513

As a matter of fact, I'm in college right now (Bloomsburg) and I'm studying criminal justice.

I actually know some people who are HARDCORE SOCIALISTS. You people are claiming that I'm a hardcore socialist, when in reality you don't know what socialism is. A true socialist would be advocating for government controlled businesses (not just government regulated businesses), separation of religion and politics (far beyond separation of church and state), stem cell research, easy access to abortions, gay marriage, the suppression of religion, and progressive taxation that is so extreme that businesses cannot function.

I support none of the things that a regular old socialist would support. Yes, I support progressive taxation, but not to the point that businesses fail.

I thought I smelled an aroma of smug, know-it-all-ism that only an undergrad college student can deliver! (Apologies to undergrads who actually focus on learning from instead of "teaching" everyone they meet.)

[ErSwnn]

Myself, I tend to seek American made products merely to support our own before I support citizens of other countries. Sure, there are plenty of times when a foreign product is superior and I buy it. But I'm willing to pay a bit more for equal products if one is made in America. I do typically check for country of origin when I shop. I do my best to avoid anything Chinese and will forgo something if I don't really need it. I have a particular issue with China as a trade country. We are being flooded with their junk, losing jobs to them and are now indebted for decades to them. The crap we buy from them can just as easily be manufactured here. Now while I have no problems with the people of China I do have one with their government. Maybe I'm old school but I still believe the Communists of the world still have an agenda of world dominance and the current economic imbalance with them is exactly what they planned. For them the fodder of human life is the current ammunition. They have no compunction to enslave workers for the benefit of the state. Hundreds of millions are working for mere survival wages. They will die off and the next generation will take their places. This will be done until the rest of the world is so run down that changes to forms of government is easily manipulated. They're going to win the war without a shot fired. Yeah, maybe I sound paranoid....hell, maybe I am...but I just don't trust them one iota and I think we should remain very vigilant against them. As individuals I feel we should avoid their products as best we can.

[1iarrowking]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

couldn't agree more.

of course, i feel the same way about vehicles...but there are a lot of people who will only buy an "american car".

(the funny part is that i hear crap from ford f150 owners sometimes. um, my toyota was made in california by american workers, your f150 was made in mexico by mexican workers. )

and i've also heard a few people say they chose an XD over a glock because the springfield armory is an american company--never mind the fact that XDs are made in croatia.

I have no doubt that although there are a lot of foreign parts on my 2008 F150, the sticker says it was assembled in Dearborn, MI. I didn't buy it for that reason. I bought it because I thought it was the best truck for me. It sure is loaded with options not available from any other manufacturer.

My OC and sometimes CC is a Glock 27. My most CC is a Kel Tek P3AT.

[ScaredOnce]

Originally Posted by marinville

I do feel better about my purchases though, when I buy American.

Recently, the track record has proven, at least personally, that buying so-called "American" is a poor move. American manufacturing quality is a joke. Just as many of us are familiar with the kool-aid of main stream media, we also tend to "eat up" the nostalgia and rest on the laurels of the years when this country was a manufacturing and industrial mega-source. The US is not that anymore. We are just happy to ignore that. Asia is not ignoring that.

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

one other point regarding cars...

detroit is in the mess it is now in large part because they did not respond to the marketplace and make truely competetive cars.

people who would buy anything they produced...even if it was a crappier car for more money...enabled this myopic mismanagement. thus, such people are actually partially responsible for the downfall of detroit.

propping up american companies that make bad decisions/don't bother responding to the marketplace/produce overpriced crap/etc. doesn't really help them (or the people who work for them) in the long run. forcing them to stay competetive, on the other hand, does.

just something to think about.

Right on, LRT... Unfortunately, too true...



And also, before we all fully pile onto the poor undergrad college hippie, let's just pause for a moment. (By the way I've never heard of Bloomsburry University, so that's not good. Consider transferring. But, I digress.) Those college students are truly the leaders of tomorrow. Also, I don't feel his initial statement on macroeconomic success trends is that far off base. It surely isn't liberal professor propaganda. Ever heard of a "jack of all trades, master of none?" A successful business knows when to outsource and when to engage projects which fall within that org's core competencies.