"Detained" while OC'ing in State College

[TheF00L]

Post deleted by "poster"

[Pa. Patriot]

I am too tired to break this down, hell I hardly could read it I'm so tired.

What was the PC to run your papers? TO take your property? They do not have to violate your rights because they receive a "man with a gun call". That's utter horse shit. I really doubt they are much more educated now than they are emboldened to do the same to the next OC'er due to your compliance. I will elaborate more tomorrow.

Sorry, but this was a BAD encounter. For many more reasons than it was good.

[JoeWilliams]

I cannot "understand the position the police are in."

The law cannot be any clearer, you cannot be detained without RAS that you have committed a crime, or are about to. The law is equally clear that simply carrying a gun does not constitute RAS. There have been ample cases brought, and much training conducted, that an officer has no excuse for violating the law and your rights in the fashion these officers did. An officer familiar with this site has even less ground to argue ignorance, not that that is an excuse.

No matter how polite, the officers broke the law, and did so knowingly and deliberately. They are nothing more than polite thugs.

[thatJeffguy]

You were detained, you didn't break the law.

Sue the absolute crap out of them, the police and the movie theater. I'm sure that some guards at Dachau made friendly chat as they loaded the showers, doesn't excuse their behavior. You should have asked why they "detained" you, a legal term, when they knew you weren't breaking the law. And why they then searched you and disarmed you, again, when you weren't breaking the law.

Holy god I hope they tell you it was a Terry search, because then it's time to start picking out the color you want your new Porsche to be in.


Horrible experience, all in all. Sue the tits off of everyone involved. Sue them twice. Absurd. I've have left knowing the names of everyone involved, having their cards in hand, their voice on my digital recorder and I'd be blaring my lawyers ass out of bed the SECOND they "allowed" me to use my phone.

[Adam M Geer]

what are these no guns/no dollars cards you speak of? where do you get em?

[headcase]

Please retain a lawyer tomorrow.


Their authority, assuming all in this post is accurate, IMO, was constrained to asking you to come with them, and when you got out of the theater, to inform you that the manager was too scared to ask you to leave and so they were being asked to do so. PERIOD. They had no cause to touch you, your shit, handle you firearm, or detain you. AT ALL. Everything from the moment you came out from the dark theater was a violation of your rights.
Please sue them.

ETA~ What position do you understand the police to be in? The position they are in is that, as "scary" as a man with a gun might be, unless you were doing something apparently criminal, they have no damn authority to detain you. Just having a gun doesn't meet that requirement. The damn training authority for the state has put as much in writing. Please, please sue them and then, maybe, this shit will stop.



OASN~I understand your feelings of standing up, I have had them. I still find myself second guessing my decision to walk away from the Little League encounter, instead of letting them arrest me. I also had the same shaking experience with PSP, and at the courthouse.

In this instance, you handled it the way you felt was right for you. But understand, they violated your rights. Please get a good civil rights lawyer... www.worthlawoffices.com ... tell them you're a member here

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Adam M Geer

what are these no guns/no dollars cards you speak of? where do you get em?

They are here...

http://paopencarry.org/no-guns-no-money-cards

[Pa. Patriot]

Ok, I took a shower and as such will be *half* awake for at least te next 15 minutes.

As Joe said:

Originally Posted by JoeWilliams

No matter how polite, the officers broke the law, and did so knowingly and deliberately. They are nothing more than polite thugs.

The whole issue with this incident was that they had no RAS to detain you... and they knew it. 100%
If not they would have charged you.

The most troublesome part is that by complying with the ID request you just consented to being "fished" for RAS. They will claim they asked because they don't know if you are a hood. Of course that does not matter. They have to find RAS that you are before they can detain you. By asking for your ID they are fishing. Unfortunately by volunteering it (ID) you have effectively waived your rights unless they cooerced you.

Now I do assume from your account that you were not asked/or consented to having your firearm removed. If so then they broke the law in doing that.

Did they run the gun too? If so what RAS did they have that it was stolen?
(Az V. Hicks)

Ok, enough for now...

They did this to bully you into not OC'ing. because they do not agree with it. They even admitted it. They know damn well they could not detain you. The only good thing I see (other than the possible business owner education that I don't fully understand from your account) is that you told them you would continue OC'ing. As in, "No, you didn't scare me out of exercising my rights".

Like HC said. Get an attorney and really teach them an actual lesson. Like willfully violating the aw and citizens rights results in trouble.

[dc dalton]

Originally Posted by TheF00L

They removed my firearm from the holster after asking me how (retention), then asked for my ID. I presented them with my Drivers License and LTCF. I did mention that I did not need to have a LTCF to OC. I was then searched for other weapons. They took my Leatherman and my 2 spare mags.

As they were doing a background check on me and asking me questions they were looking at my 1911 and I warned them that it was cocked and locked. I proceeded to show them how to drop the mag, take off the safety, rack the slide to remove chambered round.

Sorry but right here is the moment your rights were stamped into the ground. As 'nice' as they might have been they stepped WAY over the line here ... PERIOD.

Yes the business owner can ask to have you removed and that's the end of that. To be detained, searched and have your belongings removed? WAY WAY WAY over the line.

Time to lawyer up, period, nice or not these officers did NOT follow the 'letter of the law', in fact they walked all over it ...

This after we know for a fact the new training memo specifically went out of its way to alert these uninformed officers that OC is 100% legal. Well whether they 'got the memo' or not they should have known better ...... enough of this bullshit already

[TheF00L]

Yes they ran the gun too.

Now I am really unsure of what to do.

I just bagged my gun, 3 mags, Leatherman, LTCF, holster, anything they may have touched.

I am freakin shaking even more now. Going to take a hot bath to try to relax...