Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Action alert on HB2011 regarding Pre-Emption

Rep Mike Turzai has committed to move HB 2011. This bill strengthens pre-emption by providing for standing and compensation of expenses in the event a local law needs to be challenged that conflicts with State gun laws. Corbett said he will sign if it is put on his desk in the remaining 11 days left to the legislative session.

For more information and updates on these efforts, and to get involved, CLICK HERE


Go Back   Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Discussion > General

Notices

General General firearm-related talk that does not fit into any of the other forums.

PAFOA Sponsors Businesses that provide financial and technical support to PAFOA. PAFOA Shopping Partners A percentage of all sales made through these partner links goes to PAFOA.
Arms Dealer Logo

Arms Dealer — Free Firearm Classifieds, Gun Shop & Shooting Range Reviews

Arms Dealer is your one-stop shop for free firearm classifieds, gun shop & shooting range reviews.

Join today to start buying, selling and reviewing!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old April 17th, 2009, 11:16 PM
Warpt762x39's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location:
Easton, Pennsylvania
(Northampton County)
Age: 30
Posts: 2,885
Rep Power: 916
Warpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond reputeWarpt762x39 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Neck up or down?

In my research for potential firearms purchases for the (hopefully) near future, I decided that I want a bolt action rifle in .260 Remington.

It will only be for the range and as a personal challenge to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of each of the rifle, ammunition and myself.

I have noticed that .260 ammunition is kind of hard to come by and it is rather pricey. With that piece of information I have decided that the .260 bolt gun I buy will be fed only handloads.

After that decision I have found another small problem. .260 brass isn't all that common. Bullets are easy to find because of the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser rounds.

I have learned that the .260 Remington case is the same basic case as the .243 and .308 Winchesters. The new piece of info that I need is in regards to resizing brass.

Is it easier to neck down the .308 brass or neck up the .243 brass?

I can't recall ever reading any information on the pros and cons of necking either up or down. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

On a side note I had been researching a wildcat round with the same basic problem but in .25 caliber. Anybody have info on the .25 Souper?
__________________

Last edited by Warpt762x39; April 17th, 2009 at 11:19 PM.
Reply With Quote

Thanks for visiting our forum! If you ever plan to return you should consider quickly registering for a forum account, especially if you're in Pennsylvania. It's simple to do and best of all free. Once registered you'll be able to participate in our discussions and keep up to date on issues important to Pennsylvania firearm owners!

  #2 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2009, 12:04 AM
mauser's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Lebanon, Pennsylvania
(Lebanon County)
Age: 97
Posts: 2,884
Rep Power: 149755
mauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Neck up or down?

The actual sizing is really easy, no more effort than sizing a case of the proper caliber.
I'd personally opt for sizing up the .243 brass.
When you size down a .308 case you're making the diameter .044" smaller, when you size up a .243 you're making the diameter .017" bigger, a lot less of a change.
You have to pay attention to the neck thickness when you size down, the extra brass has to go somewhere and that somewhere is the wall thickness of the neck. If the neck wall is too thick it can generate dangerous pressure by holding the bullet too tight when chambered unless your chamber is loose enough to allow for the extra thickness. The neck can be turned or reamed to proper thickness if needed, but that's an extra step thereby making it easier to use .243.
__________________

There are three kinds of people in the world:
Those who make things happen;
Those who watch things happen;
Those who wonder what happened.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2009, 12:33 AM
Grand Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Lubbock, Texas
Age: 31
Posts: 2,796
Rep Power: 90303
Tomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tomcat088 Send a message via Yahoo to Tomcat088
Default Re: Neck up or down?

What Mauser is saying is correct, but I do want to bring up one point. Just because something is easier, does NOT mean that it's "better"; it will all depend on your application. Sometimes when you size up you will be losing some consistency in the brass and you will add a bit of stress to it. When you size down, you have plenty of extra brass to work with, as mention. When you turn the necks down, you will have a more consistent neck that doesn't have the same stress in it that necking up can cause. You can always take metal off, but it's not too easy to add it back on. Just something to consider, sorry that it's not a direct answer.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2009, 12:50 AM
mauser's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Lebanon, Pennsylvania
(Lebanon County)
Age: 97
Posts: 2,884
Rep Power: 149755
mauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond reputemauser has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Neck up or down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcat088 View Post
What Mauser is saying is correct, but I do want to bring up one point. Just because something is easier, does NOT mean that it's "better"; it will all depend on your application. Sometimes when you size up you will be losing some consistency in the brass and you will add a bit of stress to it. When you size down, you have plenty of extra brass to work with, as mention. When you turn the necks down, you will have a more consistent neck that doesn't have the same stress in it that necking up can cause. You can always take metal off, but it's not too easy to add it back on. Just something to consider, sorry that it's not a direct answer.
Excellent point Tomcat.
I was focused on this part of the OP:

Quote:
Is it easier to neck down the .308 brass or neck up the .243 brass?
and I glossed right over this part:

Quote:
It will only be for the range and as a personal challenge to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of each of the rifle, ammunition and myself.

I have noticed that .260 ammunition is kind of hard to come by and it is rather pricey. With that piece of information I have decided that the .260 bolt gun I buy will be fed only handloads.
If the goal is really to squeeze every bit of accuracy of everything then you would be better served by sizing down .308.

If you don't already have the tools to turn or ream the necks I'll suggest that you look seriously at the Forster case trimmer. As well as being an excellent tool for trimming to length, it's also (with the additional attachments and tooling) an excellent tool to ream the inside and/or turn the outside of the necks.
There are other tools on the market to do the same jobs but I can't give you an opinion on any except the Forster. I have one and I like it a lot, I have no desire to try any other.
__________________

There are three kinds of people in the world:
Those who make things happen;
Those who watch things happen;
Those who wonder what happened.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2009, 10:50 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location:
READING, Pennsylvania
(Berks County)
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
hipwr260 has a spectacular aura abouthipwr260 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Neck up or down?

I have had some luck necking down 7mm-08 brass. I had gotten some from a friend who didn't reload so price was't an issue.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2009, 06:22 AM
WVBob's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location:
Philippi, West Virginia
Age: 65
Posts: 1,208
Rep Power: 11357
WVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond reputeWVBob has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Neck up or down?

If you want new brass, Midway has it. Norma for $22.99 for 20, Remington $44.99 for 100. I understand wanting to try to "make" your brass. But you will have neck issues any way you go.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2009, 10:46 AM
Grand Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Lubbock, Texas
Age: 31
Posts: 2,796
Rep Power: 90303
Tomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tomcat088 Send a message via Yahoo to Tomcat088
Default Re: Neck up or down?

If you're going to use Norma Brass, I've heard LOTS of people that are annealing the .260. You may or may not want to do it. Norma brass is great, but it's also known for not exactly being the most durable or tough; that's why alot of people anneal it. Anyway, just something to think about.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2009, 11:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Louisville,Alabama
Posts: 357
Rep Power: 151
Bama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Neck up or down?

The 260 Remington is also known as the 6.5 A-square and it would have been designated that if Remington had not submitted the 260 Remington also.
It was originally a necked down .308 and became a very popular wildcat cartridge until Remington made it their own and SAMMI went along with Remington, other than A-square.
As far as necking: keep it to safe spots where the police or parents can't find you. oh, wait, wrong kind of necking, I have a 256 Newton that again is a wildcat cartridge, and can be formed from 30-06 cases.
HOWEVER; I have been advised by the man that built the rifle,who is an older wildcatter, that it is more preferable to produce the cartridge from 25-06
cases instead, as the brass needs to go somewhere, and it is better to stretch the kneck than to squeeze it down and ream it.
Just my 2 cents, and what I was told. I'd stretch out the .243. and, check Graf and Son for brass, they often have great sales on brass, but even if they don't, I have never seen them oversold in what I bought.
My Newton is like your building, a fun bench rest machine, built for accuracy.
My Newton is a 1500 Smith-Wesson, scoped out with a single power 4X32
Leopold.
Unfortunately, it actually was a gift to my wife by my gunsmith friend, But she lets me go out and play with it.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2009, 11:07 AM
Grand Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Lubbock, Texas
Age: 31
Posts: 2,796
Rep Power: 90303
Tomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond reputeTomcat088 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tomcat088 Send a message via Yahoo to Tomcat088
Default Re: Neck up or down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama Man View Post
The 260 Remington is also known as the 6.5 A-square and it would have been designated that if Remington had not submitted the 260 Remington also.
It was originally a necked down .308 and became a very popular wildcat cartridge until Remington made it their own and SAMMI went along with Remington, other than A-square.
As far as necking: keep it to safe spots where the police or parents can't find you. oh, wait, wrong kind of necking, I have a 256 Newton that again is a wildcat cartridge, and can be formed from 30-06 cases.
HOWEVER; I have been advised by the man that built the rifle,who is an older wildcatter, that it is more preferable to produce the cartridge from 25-06
cases instead, as the brass needs to go somewhere, and it is better to stretch the kneck than to squeeze it down and ream it.
Just my 2 cents, and what I was told. I'd stretch out the .243. and, check Graf and Son for brass, they often have great sales on brass, but even if they don't, I have never seen them oversold in what I bought.
My Newton is like your building, a fun bench rest machine, built for accuracy.
My Newton is a 1500 Smith-Wesson, scoped out with a single power 4X32
Leopold.
Unfortunately, it actually was a gift to my wife by my gunsmith friend, But she lets me go out and play with it.
I just wanted to point out one thing. There is a difference between reaming the necks and turning them. When you turn the necks, you are at times taking off a pretty significant amount of brass.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2009, 11:15 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Louisville,Alabama
Posts: 357
Rep Power: 151
Bama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond reputeBama Man has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Neck up or down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpt762x39 View Post
In my research for potential firearms purchases for the (hopefully) near future, I decided that I want a bolt action rifle in .260 Remington.

It will only be for the range and as a personal challenge to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of each of the rifle, ammunition and myself.

I have noticed that .260 ammunition is kind of hard to come by and it is rather pricey. With that piece of information I have decided that the .260 bolt gun I buy will be fed only handloads.

After that decision I have found another small problem. .260 brass isn't all that common. Bullets are easy to find because of the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser rounds.

I have learned that the .260 Remington case is the same basic case as the .243 and .308 Winchesters. The new piece of info that I need is in regards to resizing brass.

Is it easier to neck down the .308 brass or neck up the .243 brass?

I can't recall ever reading any information on the pros and cons of necking either up or down. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

On a side note I had been researching a wildcat round with the same basic problem but in .25 caliber. Anybody have info on the .25 Souper?
The .25 "souper" you have heard of is probably the 250 Humdinger, found in the book, Cartridges of the World.
It is a .243 necked to .257, with minimum body taper and a 45 degree shoulder angle which is similar to an Ackley shoulder.
The case is easily made by necking to .257 and fire forming.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Neck sizing with a FL die fingers80002 General 3 March 30th, 2009 07:29 PM
VENISON NECK ROAST RECIPES PROVANTAGE General 0 January 14th, 2009 08:00 PM
Russia takes it in the neck ALS General 5 September 17th, 2008 10:02 AM
case neck size sparkz General 5 September 10th, 2007 10:25 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Marketing Services provided by MergeMedia.
Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops