3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

[Geronimo509]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/lo...rol_bills.html

Three gun-control bills now in the Pennsylvania legislature would close loopholes surrounding the illegal purchase, sale, and possession of firearms.

They were described yesterday at a news conference at Philadelphia Police Headquarters by State Sen. Larry Farnese (D., Phila.), who introduced the legislation in February. He was joined by District Attorney Lynne M. Abraham, Deputy Police Commissioner Richard Ross, State Sen. LeAnna Washington (D., Phila.-Montgomery), and State Rep. Kenyatta Johnson (D., Phila.).

The first bill would make it illegal for anyone charged with a felony, but not yet convicted, to buy, transfer, sell, or possess a firearm.

The second would prohibit anyone convicted of a felony drug offense as a juvenile from buying or owning a gun as an adult.

The third bill would require a mandatory one-year sentence for carrying a gun without a license. It was first introduced in 2007, but failed to move out of committee.

Farnese's announcement came less than a year after the National Rifle Association took City Council members to court for their attempt at gun-control legislation. Farnese and his supporters say they hope for the NRA's cooperation on the state level.

The proposed legislation "is going after illegal guns," Farnese said. "We are not going to be disturbing the rights of legal gun owners."

Abraham said she believed that only the third bill, requiring mandatory sentencing, would prove problematic with advocates of gun-owners' rights. Representatives of the District Attorney's Gun Violence Task Force worked with Farnese to develop the legislation.

At the news conference, 12 illegal firearms seized during police raids during the last year lay on a table behind the speakers. Ross held up one - a three-foot-long SKS semiautomatic rifle - to illustrate the need for tighter rules.

"There is no reason for anybody in the world to be carrying that around," he said.

Still, all of the politicians present acknowledged the difficulty they were likely to face in getting support from legislators outside Philadelphia.

Farnese said he took hope from the fact that two of the bills' co-sponsors were Democrats from other regions: Sen. Michael O'Pake of Reading and Sen. Wayne Fontana of Pittsburgh. The bills are also co-sponsored by Washington and Sen. Vincent Hughes, who also represents part of Philadelphia.

I would like to know what you all think about this.

[87GTSts]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/lo...rol_bills.html



I hope this isn't old news, but this doesn't sound so bad.

1st, once you get charged with a felony, you can't buy a gun while your out on bail. If you are found not guilty or anything along those lines, that should go away and you should have your rights back (thats how I took it, I could be wrong)

So I guess that you beleive that if your are charged with a crime that you are guilty until proven innocent?

I was under the impression that it was supposed to be the other way around.

[87GTSts]

Also, the way that the law is worded not only would you be unable to purchase any firearms but you would also have to give up ALL of the guns you own until the charges are dropped or you are acquitted, which could take months or even years.

In regards to the other proposed legislation, by federal law you are already prohibited from buying or possessing firearms if convicted of a felony drug offense as a minor, so this "new" state law would just be redundant.

[Warpt762x39]

So I guess that you beleive that if your are charged with a crime that you are guilty until proven innocent?

I was under the impression that it was supposed to be the other way around.

How about the presumption of innocence until proven guilty? You give your liberty away for security too easily.

It seems like they want YOU to prove you didn't do anything wrong. Instead of them having to prove you DID do something illegal. This whole system is broken and needs a thorough tuneup.

[stephpd]

How, exactly does this address the issue of illegal gun sales? If what they describe is legal then what they are proposing is making them illegal.

More laws,more restrictions and more control. Never a good thing.

[GunLawyer001]

I couldn't be more strongly opposed to anything than I am to mandating minimum sentences for the victimless crime of carrying a firearm without a license. That's absolutely insane. You can mug an old lady and not go to jail, why should the prisons be filled with scared soccer moms and convenience store clerks who were found with guns under the seats of their own cars? Non-prohibited people who are found to be in unlawful possession of guns in vehicles or on their persons, in the absence of any other criminal intent, should be at worst punished with a summary offense, not the current M1 or felony.

You have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. The courts have mostly ignored that right, as they pretend to discover far less explicit "rights" like gay marriage and abortion and a paid attorney. The mindset that bearing arms is evil and that we only do so at the forbearance of our rulers is simply wrong, and indicative of a mental illness. Good people are entitled to protect themselves. The job of the government is to make that easier, not harder. The government is paid to catch and punish the bad people so that we don't have to use lethal force to protect ourselves; does anyone seriously argue that our streets are safe 24/7, and we no longer need to handle our own defense?

I have no problem with harsh sentences for people who misuse guns. It's the job of the DA and the judges and jurors to send proven predators away, NOT to punish good people who try to fight back but miss one paragraph out of the thick Crimes Code book. Find me one person who thinks that having a gun purely for self-defense is something so evil that it deserves the destruction of someone's family, job, and psyche via a year incarcerated among thugs and pimps and drug addicts and arsonists.

These bills always come out of Philadelphia, because none of the crooks in Philly government are willing to tell the voters that the problem is the voters and their sons and cousins and baby-daddies. As I mentioned once before, I witnessed DA Lynn Abraham tell a group of lawyers that the adjacent suburbs don't have the rampant crime of the city, that they all drank the same water, spoke the same language, and "IT ISN'T THE PEOPLE", so she was mystified why Philadelphia residents committed crimes at 2 to 5 times the rate of people living 10 miles away.

Get a clue, Lynn. It IS the people. Focus on the criminals, provide a real deterrent to crime, and an incentive to cooperate with the police. Give some real hope to the working families of the city, hold the lawless barbarians accountable. Disarmed thugs still commit crimes, but disarmed good people die.

[Eugene V. Debs]

Geronimo, others on this thread have put it more eloquently than I have, so I'll just say...These proposed laws suck big donkey dicks

That outta the way...this shit was all over the Philly news last night and today-- and not a dissenting opinion broadcast.

[PocketProtector]

I couldn't be more strongly opposed to anything than I am to mandating minimum sentences for the victimless crime of carrying a firearm without a license. That's absolutely insane. You can mug an old lady and not go to jail, why should the prisons be filled with scared soccer moms and convenience store clerks who were found with guns under the seats of their own cars? Non-prohibited people who are found to be in unlawful possession of guns in vehicles or on their persons, in the absence of any other criminal intent, should be at worst punished with a summary offense, not the current M1 or felony.

You have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. The courts have mostly ignored that right, as they pretend to discover far less explicit "rights" like gay marriage and abortion and a paid attorney. The mindset that bearing arms is evil and that we only do so at the forbearance of our rulers is simply wrong, and indicative of a mental illness. Good people are entitled to protect themselves. The job of the government is to make that easier, not harder. The government is paid to catch and punish the bad people so that we don't have to use lethal force to protect ourselves; does anyone seriously argue that our streets are safe 24/7, and we no longer need to handle our own defense?

I have no problem with harsh sentences for people who misuse guns. It's the job of the DA and the judges and jurors to send proven predators away, NOT to punish good people who try to fight back but miss one paragraph out of the thick Crimes Code book. Find me one person who thinks that having a gun purely for self-defense is something so evil that it deserves the destruction of someone's family, job, and psyche via a year incarcerated among thugs and pimps and drug addicts and arsonists.

These bills always come out of Philadelphia, because none of the crooks in Philly government are willing to tell the voters that the problem is the voters and their sons and cousins and baby-daddies. As I mentioned once before, I witnessed DA Lynn Abraham tell a group of lawyers that the adjacent suburbs don't have the rampant crime of the city, that they all drank the same water, spoke the same language, and "IT ISN'T THE PEOPLE", so she was mystified why Philadelphia residents committed crimes at 2 to 5 times the rate of people living 10 miles away.

Get a clue, Lynn. It IS the people. Focus on the criminals, provide a real deterrent to crime, and an incentive to cooperate with the police. Give some real hope to the working families of the city, hold the lawless barbarians accountable. Disarmed thugs still commit crimes, but disarmed good people die.

Great post, send it to all the papers !!

[-JD-]

I couldn't be more strongly opposed to anything than I am to mandating minimum sentences for the victimless crime of carrying a firearm without a license. That's absolutely insane. You can mug an old lady and not go to jail, why should the prisons be filled with scared soccer moms and convenience store clerks who were found with guns under the seats of their own cars? Non-prohibited people who are found to be in unlawful possession of guns in vehicles or on their persons, in the absence of any other criminal intent, should be at worst punished with a summary offense, not the current M1 or felony.

You have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. The courts have mostly ignored that right, as they pretend to discover far less explicit "rights" like gay marriage and abortion and a paid attorney. The mindset that bearing arms is evil and that we only do so at the forbearance of our rulers is simply wrong, and indicative of a mental illness. Good people are entitled to protect themselves. The job of the government is to make that easier, not harder. The government is paid to catch and punish the bad people so that we don't have to use lethal force to protect ourselves; does anyone seriously argue that our streets are safe 24/7, and we no longer need to handle our own defense?

I have no problem with harsh sentences for people who misuse guns. It's the job of the DA and the judges and jurors to send proven predators away, NOT to punish good people who try to fight back but miss one paragraph out of the thick Crimes Code book. Find me one person who thinks that having a gun purely for self-defense is something so evil that it deserves the destruction of someone's family, job, and psyche via a year incarcerated among thugs and pimps and drug addicts and arsonists.

These bills always come out of Philadelphia, because none of the crooks in Philly government are willing to tell the voters that the problem is the voters and their sons and cousins and baby-daddies. As I mentioned once before, I witnessed DA Lynn Abraham tell a group of lawyers that the adjacent suburbs don't have the rampant crime of the city, that they all drank the same water, spoke the same language, and "IT ISN'T THE PEOPLE", so she was mystified why Philadelphia residents committed crimes at 2 to 5 times the rate of people living 10 miles away.

Get a clue, Lynn. It IS the people. Focus on the criminals, provide a real deterrent to crime, and an incentive to cooperate with the police. Give some real hope to the working families of the city, hold the lawless barbarians accountable. Disarmed thugs still commit crimes, but disarmed good people die.

Excellent as always. (ETA rep button broken - owe you.)

I would offer one subtle, but I think important refinement/expansion.

... I have no problem with harsh sentences for people who misuse guns. ...

I'd be more apt to say:

I have no problem with harsh sentences for people who commit violent crimes or knowingly endanger others.

How you do it is irrelevant, (i.e. gun, knife, rope, pen, brick, rock, screwdriver, car, bridge [as in throwing off] etc. - I think you get the idea) - Dead is dead, injured is injured. The knowledge/intent and the result are the key issues.

The crime-with-a-gun, tack-on-charge, laws are bogus. Every time society adds another, often poorly though out and written, law to target the current object of public outrage or concern it typically results in unintended consequences. Aggregated, we end up where we live in a legal minefield as GL001 pointed out.

Despite the pretty near universal (pro/anti-gun) belief that people who commit crimes with a gun should be punished, when we, as pro-gun citizens, support the singling-out of the gun by superfluously referencing that (the gun) aspect as opposed to keeping the focus on the fundamental crime, we are tacitly supporting the agenda of the anti's.

Everytime I see "us" (nominally pro-gun folks) agreeing that we need to be tough on "gun crime", I cringe a little. Not because I fundamentally disagree, but because I feel we are tacitly accepting the premise that guns have some inherent special aspect and are fundamentally different than other tools/objects. Then the battle is half lost.

BTW. In my world view the 2nd is not just about guns. It encompasses knives, slingshots, pitchforks, etc.

[thelemite]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/lo...rol_bills.html




1st, once you get charged with a felony, you can't buy a gun while your out on bail. If you are found not guilty or anything along those lines, that should go away and you should have your rights back (thats how I took it, I could be wrong)

How about the presumption of innocence until proven guilty? You give your liberty away for security too easily.