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Old April 13th, 2009, 06:00 PM
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Default Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

A friend, Karma8541, recently applied for a LTCF in Snyder County and was told by Sheriff Joseph S. Reigle Jr. that he could be denied at the Sheriff's discretion by law for any reason. He cited a passage on his website-

http://www.snydercounty.org/snyder/c...yderNav=|7357|,
and stated that this was LAW. Is this so? Is Snyder County no longer subject to Pa. and Constitutional Law? Maybe someone should call (570) 837-4208, or fax (570) 837-4282 to Sheriff Reigle, a copy of our Commonwealth's Laws or recent court precedents which apply?
Maybe an email to Commissioners@SnyderCounty.org might be in order also.

I expect that Jeff (karma8541) will post an update.

Good luck to him.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

It's that nasty "character clause" that the sheriff is refering to.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

Quote:
Q: I have never been convicted of a crime, but yet I have been denied a PA License to Carry Firearms. Why?
A: <snip> If the reason is not due to a denial by PICS, it may be because the Sheriff or another member of the Snyder County Sheriff's Office is aware of information which causes the Sheriff to believe that applicant is not responsible enough to possess a PA License to Carry Firearms. Remember, the Sheriff of Snyder County, by law, may reject any application at any time for any reason.
The actual law: relevent section is G
Quote:
18 Pa.C.S. 6109: Licenses
(a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.
(b) Place of application.--An individual who is 21 years of age or older may apply to a sheriff for a license to carry a firearm concealed on or about his person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth. If the applicant is a resident of this Commonwealth, he shall make application with the sheriff of the county in which he resides or, if a resident of a city of the first class, with the chief of police of that city.
(c) Form of application and content.--The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. One of the following reasons for obtaining a firearm license shall be set forth in the application: self-defense, employment, hunting and fishing, target shooting, gun collecting or another proper reason. The application form shall be dated and signed by the applicant and shall contain the following statement:
I have never been convicted of a crime that prohibits me from possessing or acquiring a firearm under Federal or State law. I am of sound mind and have never been committed to a mental institution. I hereby certify that the statements contained herein are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. I understand that, if I knowingly make any false statements herein, I am subject to penalties prescribed by law. I authorize the sheriff, or his designee, or, in the case of first class cities, the chief or head of the police department, or his designee, to inspect only those records or documents relevant to information required for this application. If I am issued a license and knowingly become ineligible to legally possess or acquire firearms, I will promptly notify the sheriff of the county in which I reside or, if I reside in a city of the first class, the chief of police of that city.
(d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.--The sheriff to whom the application is made shall:
(1) investigate the applicant's record of criminal conviction;
(2) investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year;
(3) investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety;
(4) investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms); and
(5) conduct a criminal background, juvenile delinquency and mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to sale or transfer of firearms), receive a unique approval number for that inquiry and record the date and number on the application.
(e) Issuance of license.--
(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:
(i) An individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.
(ii) An individual who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L. 233, No. 64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act. [FN1]
(iii) An individual convicted of a crime enumerated in section 6105.
(iv) An individual who, within the past ten years, has been adjudicated delinquent for a crime enumerated in section 6105 or for an offense under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act.
(v) An individual who is not of sound mind or who has ever been committed to a mental institution.
(vi) An individual who is addicted to or is an unlawful user of marijuana or a stimulant, depressant or narcotic drug.
(vii) An individual who is a habitual drunkard.
(viii) An individual who is charged with or has been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year except as provided for in section 6123 (relating to waiver of disability or pardons).
(ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).
(x) An alien who is illegally in the United States.
(xi) An individual who has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions.
(xii) An individual who is a fugitive from justice. This subparagraph does not apply to an individual whose fugitive status is based upon nonmoving or moving summary offense under Title 75 (relating to vehicles).
(xiii) An individual who is otherwise prohibited from possessing, using, manufacturing, controlling, purchasing, selling or transferring a firearm as provided by section 6105.
(xiv) An individual who is prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm under the statutes of the United States.
(2) Deleted by 1995, June 13, No. 17 (Spec. Sess. No. 1), 2, effective in 120 days.

(3) The license to carry a firearm shall be designed to be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be in a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The license shall bear the following:
(i) The name, address, date of birth, race, sex, citizenship, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes and signature of the licensee.
(ii) The signature of the sheriff issuing the license.
(iii) [Reserved]
(iv) [Reserved]
(v) The reason for issuance.
(vi) The period of validation.
The sheriff may also require a photograph of the licensee on the license.
<Text of subsec. (e)(3) effective upon publication of the notice under 18 Pa.C.S.A. 6109(h)(2) or five years and 60 days [Jan. 10, 2011], whichever is first.>
(3) The license to carry a firearm shall be designed to be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be in a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The license shall bear the following:
(i) The name, address, date of birth, race, sex, citizenship, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes and signature of the licensee.
(ii) The signature of the sheriff issuing the license.
(iii) A license number of which the first two numbers shall be a county location code followed by numbers issued in numerical sequence.
(iv) The point-of-contact telephone number designated by the Pennsylvania State Police under subsection (l).
(v) The reason for issuance.
(vi) The period of validation.
<Text of subsec. (e)(4) effective upon publication of the notice under 18 Pa.C.S.A. 6109(h)(2) or five years and 60 days [Jan. 10, 2011], whichever is first.>
(4) The sheriff shall require a photograph of the licensee on the license. The photograph shall be in a form compatible with the Commonwealth Photo Imaging Network.
(5) The original license shall be issued to the applicant. The first copy of the license shall be forwarded to the Pennsylvania State Police within seven days of the date of issue. The second copy shall be retained by the issuing authority for a period of seven years. Except pursuant to court order, both copies and the application shall, at the end of the seven-year period, be destroyed unless the license has been renewed within the seven-year period.
(f) Term of license.--
(1) A license to carry a firearm issued under subsection (e) shall be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years unless sooner revoked.
(2) At least 60 days prior to the expiration of each license, the issuing sheriff shall send to the licensee an application for renewal of license. Failure to receive a renewal application shall not relieve a licensee from the responsibility to renew the license.
(g) Grant or denial of license.--Upon the receipt of an application for a license to carry a firearm, the sheriff shall, within 45 days, issue or refuse to issue a license on the basis of the investigation under subsection (d) and the accuracy of the information contained in the application. If the sheriff refuses to issue a license, the sheriff shall notify the applicant in writing of the refusal and the specific reasons. The notice shall be sent by certified mail to the applicant at the address set forth in the application.
(h) Fee.--
(1) In addition to fees described in paragraphs (2)(ii) and (3), the fee for a license to carry a firearm is $19. This includes all of the following:
(i) A renewal notice processing fee of $1.50.
(ii) An administrative fee of $5 under section 14(2) of the act of July 6, 1984 (P.L. 614, No. 127), [FN2] known as the Sheriff Fee Act.
(2)
(i) The Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency shall implement, within five years of the effective date of this paragraph, a system in conjunction with the Pennsylvania State Police and the Pennsylvania Sheriffs' Association to standardize and modernize the process of issuing licenses to carry firearms. Upon implementation of the system under this paragraph, the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency shall publish notice thereof in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.
(ii) An additional temporary fee of $5 shall be remitted by the sheriff to the Firearms License to Carry Modernization Account, which is hereby established as a special restricted receipt account within the General Fund of the State Treasury. Moneys and investment income in the account shall be awarded as grants to sheriffs to implement the system, including grants to reimburse sheriffs for expenses incurred prior to the effective date of this paragraph.
(iii) Moneys credited to the account and any investment income accrued are hereby appropriated on a continuing basis to the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. The commission shall establish procedures related to the application process for and distribution of funds to sheriffs under this paragraph. Notwithstanding the provisions of subparagraph (ii), the commission may withhold annually an amount not exceeding 5% of the funds credited to the account in that fiscal year for the cost to implement the system under subparagraph (i) and for administrative costs directly related to the responsibilities of the commission under this paragraph.
(iv) This paragraph shall expire five years after its effective date. Any surplus funds remaining in the account established in subparagraph (ii) at such time shall lapse into the General Fund.
(3) An additional fee of $1 shall be paid by the applicant for a license to carry a firearm and shall be remitted by the sheriff to the Firearms License Validation System Account, which is hereby established as a special restricted receipt account within the General Fund of the State Treasury. The account shall be used for purposes under subsection (l). Moneys credited to the account and any investment income accrued are hereby appropriated on a continuing basis to the Pennsylvania State Police.
(4) No fee other than that provided by this subsection or the Sheriff Fee Act may be assessed by the sheriff for the performance of any background check made pursuant to this act.
(5) The fee is payable to the sheriff to whom the application is submitted and is payable at the time of application for the license.
(6) Except for the administrative fee of $5 under section 14(2) of the Sheriff Fee Act, all other fees shall be refunded if the application is denied but shall not be refunded if a license is issued and subsequently revoked.
(7) A person who sells or attempts to sell a license to carry a firearm for a fee in excess of the amounts fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.
(i) Revocation.--A license to carry firearms may be revoked by the issuing authority for good cause. A license to carry firearms shall be revoked by the issuing authority for any reason stated in subsection (e)(1) which occurs during the term of the permit. Notice of revocation shall be in writing and shall state the specific reason for revocation. Notice shall be sent by certified mail to the individual whose license is revoked, and, at that time, notice shall also be provided to the Pennsylvania State Police by electronic means, including e-mail or facsimile transmission, that the license is no longer valid. An individual whose license is revoked shall surrender the license to the issuing authority within five days of receipt of the notice. An individual whose license is revoked may appeal to the court of common pleas for the judicial district in which the individual resides. An individual who violates this section commits a summary offense.
(i.1) Notice to sheriff.--Notwithstanding any statute to the contrary:
(1) Upon conviction of a person for a crime specified in section 6105(a) or (b) or upon conviction of a person for a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year or upon a determination that the conduct of a person meets the criteria specified in section 6105(c)(1), (2), (3), (5), (6) or (9), the court shall determine if the defendant has a license to carry firearms issued pursuant to this section. If the defendant has such a license, the court shall notify the sheriff of the county in which that person resides, on a form developed by the Pennsylvania State Police, of the identity of the person and the nature of the crime or conduct which resulted in the notification. The notification shall be transmitted by the judge within seven days of the conviction or determination.
(2) Upon adjudication that a person is incompetent or upon the involuntary commitment of a person to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L. 817, No. 143), known as the Mental Health Procedures Act, or upon involuntary treatment of a person as described under section 6105(c)(4), the judge of the court of common pleas, mental health review officer or county mental health and mental retardation administrator shall notify the sheriff of the county in which that person resides, on a form developed by the Pennsylvania State Police, of the identity of the person who has been adjudicated, committed or treated and the nature of the adjudication, commitment or treatment. The notification shall be transmitted by the judge, mental health review officer or county mental health and mental retardation administrator within seven days of the adjudication, commitment or treatment.
(j) Immunity.--A sheriff who complies in good faith with this section shall be immune from liability resulting or arising from the action or misconduct with a firearm committed by any individual to whom a license to carry a firearm has been issued.
(k) Reciprocity.--
(1) The Attorney General shall have the power and duty to enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of a license to carry a firearm issued by the Commonwealth and a license or permit to carry a firearm issued by the other state. To carry out this duty, the Attorney General is authorized to negotiate reciprocity agreements and grant recognition of a license or permit to carry a firearm issued by another state.
(2) The Attorney General shall report to the General Assembly within 180 days of the effective date of this paragraph and annually thereafter concerning the agreements which have been consummated under this subsection.
(l) Firearms License Validation System.--
(1) The Pennsylvania State Police shall establish a nationwide toll- free telephone number, known as the Firearms License Validation System, which shall be operational seven days a week, 24 hours per day, for the purpose of responding to law enforcement inquiries regarding the validity of any Pennsylvania license to carry a firearm.
(2) Notwithstanding any other law regarding the confidentiality of information, inquiries to the Firearms License Validation System regarding the validity of any Pennsylvania license to carry a firearm may only be made by law enforcement personnel acting within the scope of their official duties.
(3) Law enforcement personnel outside this Commonwealth shall provide their originating agency identifier number and the license number of the license to carry a firearm which is the subject of the inquiry.
(4) Responses to inquiries by law enforcement personnel outside this Commonwealth shall be limited to the name of the licensee, the validity of the license and any information which may be provided to a criminal justice agency pursuant to Chapter 91 (relating to criminal history record information).
(m) Inquiries.--
(1) The Attorney General shall, not later than one year after the effective date of this subsection and not less than once annually, contact in writing the appropriate authorities in any other state which does not have a current reciprocity agreement with the Commonwealth to determine if:
(i) the state will negotiate a reciprocity agreement;
(ii) a licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the state; or
(iii) a licensee may apply for a license or permit to carry a firearm issued by the state.
(2) The Attorney General shall maintain a current list of those states which have a reciprocity agreement with the Commonwealth, those states which allow licensees to carry a concealed firearm and those states which allow licensees to apply for a license or permit to carry a firearm. This list shall be posted on the Internet, provided to the Pennsylvania State Police and made available to the public upon request.
(n) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "licensee" means an individual who is licensed to carry a firearm under this section.
Someone may also want to inform them that they are required by law to send notice of renewal at least 60 days before expiration, not that they are prohibited by law from accepting renewals prior to 60 days from expiration...
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Old April 14th, 2009, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

I told Karma8541 before in another thread that the sheriff is a fair and honest man. But yes, he does have the ability to deny LTCF applications based on the findings of his investigation. I would assume they were speaking in reference to the post that Karma8541 made here. (M3 disorderly conduct/can i own a Firearm)

While an M3 disorderly conduct charge may not immediately be a disqualifier, the judge could argue that he could deny the application because of the definition of the offense:

Quote:
5503. Disorderly conduct.
(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of disorderly
conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance
or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
(1) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or
tumultuous behavior;
(2) makes unreasonable noise;
(3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture;
or
(4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive
condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of
the actor.
(b) Grading.--An offense under this section is a misdemeanor
of the third degree if the intent of the actor is to cause
substantial harm or serious inconvenience, or if he persists in
disorderly conduct after reasonable warning or request to
desist. Otherwise disorderly conduct is a summary offense.
(c) Definition.--As used in this section the word "public"
means affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which
the public or a substantial group has access; among the places
included are highways, transport facilities, schools, prisons,
apartment houses, places of business or amusement, any
neighborhood, or any premises which are open to the public.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

Whatever the sheriff may or may not be, he can not legally deny a LTCF for ANY reason. He must give a reason that falls under the disqualifiers, by registered mail, and that reason will have to stand up to a challenge. Under the color of character and reputation, if he finds something he feels shows the applicant may be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety, he must detail the reason. The denied will have a chance to challange that specific finding before a judge. He may not, for example, deny based on the fact he doesn't like red shoes, or the length of the applicant's hair.

To the OP, I see you applied, let us know what happens
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Old April 14th, 2009, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

That sheriff's webpage is chuck full of misinformation.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

If i am soooooooooooooooo bad and an evil criminal could i have purchased this fine (Tool) from Rich flynn from American Sport shooting in brodheadsville and pass the pics check from PSP???? No i dont think so, So i know of no reason to why the sheriff of my county would deny me an LTCF to carry..Can anyone answer that plz..
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Old April 14th, 2009, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

It reminds me of the sheriff arbitrarily pulling SFN's LTCF for legally OC'ing. I was talking to reverserboy earlier and he brought up an interesting point- the Utah LTCF class is coming up shortly at Hellertown Sportsman's Association. We have reciprocity. It costs more, but Sheriff Reigle can't decline it or revoke it.
I think it is wrong that Karma8541 (a combat wounded Marine Corps E5) would have to go to another state for a LTCF for PA.
Keep the faith Jeff, we have your back.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

Ok, I'm kinda confused.
You applied, correct?
When did you apply?
Did you recieve a denial letter?
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Old April 14th, 2009, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Snyder County Sheriff threatening LTCF denial.

Yes i did apply last week and no i have not recieved a denial but i did recieve a phone call from the sheriff he would not committ either way but he did say by law he can deny my LTCF for any reason, According to his webpage even if u pass PICS if he or his deputys know of any information he has the right by law according to him to deny me..
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