9mm suitable for home defense?

[Tackdriver]

As someone who has grown up in California, and know the gun laws there very well... (having only been in PA for the last year), I have an opinion on this.

The 9 is certainly an acceptable home defense round and discounting the fact that comfort with the recoil/etc is more important than 'stopping power', my opinion is hypocritically thus:

Considering the magazine size ban in CA, the overwhelming trend is to go 45 ACP as the standard mags are under 10 rounds and the round is very powerful considering the fact that the army is going back to the 45.

Since I see you are from LA, you should take some time to go down to San Diego and visit the South Bay Rod and Gun Club... awesome place to shoot. Also is B&B Sales still the best gun shop in LA?

So mr LA: Trust me come to PA and feel the pop pop of freedom!

[TwistedCopper]

I have a few good caliber handguns to choose from for home defense, but at 3:30 on a pitch black morning my home defense weapon of choice is a 12 gauge with buckshot (00) and with a warm fuzzy that I most likely have the upper hand against whatever made the noise that got me out of bed.

If you want to use the 9 for home defense then get some heavy hollow points for it.

[TJB63]

Originally Posted by RandomTask

Say what??? I've put .223 FMJ through 8" trees! I've also put it through 1/4 boiler plate, where the steel looked like it was penetrated by a drill bit. It might get deflected, but it certainly won't disintegrate.

A 9mm frangible round or Glaser blue dot would be fine for in-home defense.

That I would like for witness myself.. 8" Tree?? If you are using 62Gr Steel Penetrators maybe, But a 55gr FMJ I don't see it. There's been test after test done and usually what people think are penetrations are usually the casing fragmenting. Have you tried placing a target behind what you are shooting through?? The tests I've seen done and also read about have never shown an intact penetration and it's this reason that a 5.56mm is so effective at taking out human/soft skinned targets.

Try the target behind what you are shooting at..I'd like to hear the results.

I do agree with the 9mm Glaser round though...You should be safe with that, But I would try experimenting with it first to make sure it doesn't penetrate. Afterall People these days are too sue happy and gun scared.

TJ

[Charlie B]

I agree with TwistedCopper. A 12 GA has the edge.

When something wakes me up, the first thing I may reach for is my 9mm with Hydra Shock (16 in the mag and 1 in the chamber), but I clear the house with the Defender and 7 rounds of 00.

[LittleRedToyota]

as for overpenetration concerns of rifle vs. shotgun, see:

www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

there are lots of other penetration tests on www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm as well.

bottom line is that anything that will stop a bad guy will go through several walls constructed of drywall.

[awkx]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

bottom line is that anything that will stop a bad guy will go through several walls constructed of drywall.

Very true, but I would like to add an important qualification: anything that will stop a bad guy at a certain distance from the muzzle will go through several walls of drywall at the same distance from the muzzle. That is, a rifle bullet and buckshot are both deadly at in-house distances, but the rifle bullet, if it exits the house, is more likely to still be deadly a mile away. Buckshot is less aerodynamic than a rifle bullet and spreads out, so if you are concerned about penetrating into a neighbor's house, consider the shotgun. (On the downside, with a shotgun, there are also more projectiles, and therefore more opportunities to hit an innocent bystander.)

[1911shooter]

Remington 870 with 00 buckshot= perfection
or an AR15 with a 50hollowpoint.

[Tomcat088]

All this talk about overpenetration and frangible rounds, it's pretty funny. Pretty much any modern centerfire round, whether it's .223, .45ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm, .22lr, is gonna shoot through your house. I've had friends who had ND's and also shot through country houses we were fixing to tear down and I assure you, all of those bullets zip right throught he siding, all the interior walls, and back out the other siding. The one thing that will keep this from happening with pistol rounds is having brick, that will usually stock them. With a 5.56 it'll something stop on brick, but if you were shooting some of the 7.62 variants of assault rifles, it's gonna go through the brick. If you're serious about home defense, you'll get a 12 gauge shotgun with some 00 buckshot. DO NOT listen to what some of the others have told you about keeping some birdshot (8, 7 1/2 or 6) in one, even 4 shot isn't that good. These pellets dissipate energy way too fast to get the kind of penetration you need on a human being. There are cases where people have tries to commit suicide or have been shot by someone with a 12 gauge full of birdshot, and it disfigured them plenty, but didn't kill them. It probably wouldn't stop someone quite determined on injuring or killing you, and would probably piss them off pretty bad. Frangible ammunition isn't all that reliable, and if you look at the box of truth tests, usually doesn't get enough penetration to kill a human target. Get yourself some good hollow points, a good flash light, practice alot, and make your hits.

[dirksterg30]

9mm is just fine for home defense. I'd stay away from the prefragmented rounds like Glaser, MagSafe etc. These rounds often penetrate well below the FBI minimum standard, leaving shallow wounds which may not reach the vitals of your attacker. http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=174 http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs5.htm

You want a hollow-point round that penetrates at least 12" in properly calibrated ballistic gelatin, preferably with good expansion. This is the FBI's minimum standard, and I think it would be wise to follow that standard. Another place for some good info on the subject: http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237

[RandomTask]

Originally Posted by TJB63

That I would like for witness myself.. 8" Tree?? If you are using 62Gr Steel Penetrators maybe, But a 55gr FMJ I don't see it. There's been test after test done and usually what people think are penetrations are usually the casing fragmenting. Have you tried placing a target behind what you are shooting through?? The tests I've seen done and also read about have never shown an intact penetration and it's this reason that a 5.56mm is so effective at taking out human/soft skinned targets.

Try the target behind what you are shooting at..I'd like to hear the results.
TJ

Maybe it was a 6" tree. It was at least that, shot at a distance of 50'. It was when I first bought my mini-14 back in 1992. Right out of the box, I took some 55gr FMJBT rounds out to the woods and blasted a junk pile. I put rounds through stoves, freezers, a boiler, and trees. The trees all had an exit hole. No clue if the bullet was intact on exit or disintegrated in the process, but at least something flew out the backside, thus I call it penetration.

I have nowhere to shoot aside from Scotia Range right now, but maybe I'll see if a friend of my wife's will let me squeeze off 5 rounds at assorted trees and I'll post results with photos.