Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
HB80 (Formerly HB 1243, Preemption Law Changes) Is Off to the Governor for Signature!

Thanks to everyone's support of this bill, it has passed a concurrence vote in the House, and is now off to the Governor's desk to be signed. To link to the latest discussion on this effort, CLICK HERE


Go Back   Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Discussion > General

Notices

General General firearm-related talk that does not fit into any of the other forums.

PAFOA Sponsors Businesses that provide financial and technical support to PAFOA. PAFOA Shopping Partners A percentage of all sales made through these partner links goes to PAFOA.
Arms Dealer Logo

Arms Dealer — Free Firearm Classifieds, Gun Shop & Shooting Range Reviews

Arms Dealer is your one-stop shop for free firearm classifieds, gun shop & shooting range reviews.

Join today to start buying, selling and reviewing!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 03:32 PM
FAL FAL is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location:
Philly, Pennsylvania
(Philadelphia County)
Posts: 85
Rep Power: 6
FAL is on a distinguished road
Default Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

I was thinking, what would be the most reliable rifle out there, that is not an ak47. Example being, if the AK had never been created, what would have been used like the ak is used? I was thinking maybe the FAL?

It's not about the Russians, not about there line of guns at all, just the single most reliable weapon out there, pick it up pull the trigger and BANG. (thats not the AK of course)

Last edited by FAL; January 15th, 2009 at 04:17 PM.
Reply With Quote

Thanks for visiting our forum! If you ever plan to return you should consider quickly registering for a forum account, especially if you're in Pennsylvania. It's simple to do and best of all free. Once registered you'll be able to participate in our discussions and keep up to date on issues important to Pennsylvania firearm owners!

  #2 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 03:51 PM
RONNIE77's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location:
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
(Philadelphia County)
Age: 36
Posts: 1,048
Rep Power: 165
RONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

I would say the M1 Garand.....
__________________
ZRT -SECTOR-7
"If you do not stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them" - Unknown
"Incoming fire has the right of way" - Murphy's Military Laws
"Fast is fine, accuracy is final" - Larry Vickers
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 03:55 PM
Minor Threat's Avatar
Active Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
In the tall grass, Pennsylvania
(Chester County)
Age: 42
Posts: 248
Rep Power: 198
Minor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond reputeMinor Threat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

Most bolt action rifles
__________________
If you're not outraged & disgusted, you are simply not paying atttention
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 04:03 PM
General Geoff's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Allentown, Pennsylvania
(Lehigh County)
Posts: 1,900
Rep Power: 77663
General Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond reputeGeneral Geoff has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

since you're asking what would be used instead of the AK had the AK never been invented, I would say SKS. The FAL is a fine design but it was a NATO weapon. The Russians would never have used it.
__________________
Any mission, any conditions, any foe at any range.
Twice the mayhem, triple the force.
Ten times the action, total hardcore.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 04:09 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location:
Conshohocken, Pennsylvania
Age: 33
Posts: 271
Rep Power: 14
seoulstice is a splendid one to beholdseoulstice is a splendid one to beholdseoulstice is a splendid one to beholdseoulstice is a splendid one to beholdseoulstice is a splendid one to beholdseoulstice is a splendid one to beholdseoulstice is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDyer77 View Post
Most bolt action rifles
I agree.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 04:09 PM
RONNIE77's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location:
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
(Philadelphia County)
Age: 36
Posts: 1,048
Rep Power: 165
RONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond reputeRONNIE77 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

Are you asking what would the Russians have used if the AK had never been invented?

-or-

Are you asking what would be considered the most reliable rifle if the AK was never invented?


If your answer is question 1, then I would say the SKS.

If your answer is question 2, then I would stand with the M1 Garand.
And like stated already, most bolt action rifle will be very reliable as well.
__________________
ZRT -SECTOR-7
"If you do not stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them" - Unknown
"Incoming fire has the right of way" - Murphy's Military Laws
"Fast is fine, accuracy is final" - Larry Vickers

Last edited by RONNIE77; January 15th, 2009 at 04:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 04:56 PM
Shawn.L's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
PGH, Pennsylvania
(Allegheny County)
Posts: 7,463
Rep Power: 25606
Shawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

My AK (no longer own) that saw limited use had many more malfunctions than my AR (not one) ever has.

the internet is full of gross exagerations.
__________________
Antifragile Training
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 05:08 PM
Super Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
(Philadelphia County)
Posts: 709
Rep Power: 3823
pred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond reputepred has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

If the AK47 was not invented, The AK 48.
SKS/M1 Garand
Or just about ant bolt.
Peter
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 05:17 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location:
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
(Philadelphia County)
Age: 31
Posts: 414
Rep Power: 0
Ophidian has much to be proud ofOphidian has much to be proud ofOphidian has much to be proud ofOphidian has much to be proud ofOphidian has much to be proud ofOphidian has much to be proud ofOphidian has much to be proud ofOphidian has much to be proud ofOphidian has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to Ophidian
Default Re: Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn.L View Post
My AK (no longer own) that saw limited use had many more malfunctions than my AR (not one) ever has.

the internet is full of gross exagerations.
Your one example is much more reliable than thousands of accounts to the contrary.

The AK's loose tolerances, while resulting is somewhat reduced accuracy, allow for the rifle platform to perform flawlessly in pretty much any condition. If we were to compare the AK and the AR to pistols, the AR would be a 1911: accurate, but prone to failure due to tighter lockup. The AK would be a Glock: accurate enough for its intended application and functional in the worst possible (aka realistic) combat conditions.

There is a reason I own a Glock for a carry piece and an AK for the token "assault rifle" in my collection, because I can rely on them 100% of the time.

The only reason the AR is still in service is because Colt has a contract with the American Governent till... 2010 or 2020 (somewhere around there). There are plenty of other much better alternatives to the AR platform (See HK 416 or Robinson XCR) but because of bullshit Government bureaucracy, we are locked into a joke of a rifle platform which more resembles a Mr. Potato head with all of its ridiculous accessories than an honest-to-god ultra reliable rifle platform like the AK.

If you cant tell, I really dont like the AR platform

Last edited by Ophidian; January 15th, 2009 at 05:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2009, 05:36 PM
NineseveN's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
The Laurel Highlands, Pennsylvania
(Cambria County)
Posts: 4,344
Rep Power: 38721
NineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond reputeNineseveN has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Most Reliable rifle, Thats not an AK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophidian View Post
Your one example is much more reliable than thousands of accounts to the contrary.

The AK's loose tolerances, while resulting is somewhat reduced accuracy, allow for the rifle platform to perform flawlessly in pretty much any condition. If we were to compare the AK and the AR to pistols, the AR would be a 1911: accurate, but prone to failure due to tighter lockup. The AK would be a Glock: accurate enough for its intended application and functional in the worst possible (aka realistic) combat conditions.

There is a reason I own a Glock for a carry piece and an AK for the token "assault rifle" in my collection, because I can rely on them 100% of the time.
That's not quite correct. The AK was designed for a largely untrained conscript army, the Glock was designed and marketed to cops. We'll call this group A.

The AR rifle and the 1911 were designed for the US military, a highly trained military force that has a very detailed and insistent dogma regarding weapon maintenance an are most often used by competition shooters, who are also skilled and can maintain their weapons. We’ll call this group B.


So the AK and Glock were made for people like those found in group A, often poorly trained, lacking weapon knowledge and who have the inability or a lack of intent to properly maintain their firearms. These are guns that any idiot can use and not worry about having to clean or maintain it.

The AR and 1911 were made for people such as can be found in group B, shooters that know how to properly run and clean a weapon.

AR's are prone to failure when the user doesn't know how to maintain one. 1911's are prone to failure when the user doesn't know how to maintain one, or thinks he's a gunsmith and tries to "customize" his piece, or when the company making the gun in question has poor QA or made ill conceived changes to the design (let 30 different companies make Glocks and see how many different brands suck and don’t run right). It has nothing to do with tighter lockup. Les Baer 1911’s are generally the tightest of the bunch, they don't fail due to it. Most of the custom competition guns are tighter than any stock 1911, they often run many thousands of rounds per year, sometimes without cleaning, yet also without failure due to the tightness of the gun. Aside from parts failure, the most problems I hear about come from worn springs in the magazine or the gun...but they tend to get worn when one shoots more rounds in a year than most shooters probably will in a lifetime.

For the record, I don't compete, I don't own an AR, I’ve owned and like the AK and I appreciate the Glock. I do and have owned 1911's and carry an STI 2011. When thinking about the durability of a firearm, you cannot exclude determining how the average user in your data handles and treats their weapon, or what they actually know about it.


User influence aside, on a mechanical level subjected to the environment alone, after the AK Id say the FAL (look up Ol' Dirty from Texas on the FAL Files as an example or all of the FAL's in military service throughout history) or the G3 for autoloaders.
__________________
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. ~Voltaire

Near Death Experiments - Survival According to Darwinism

Last edited by NineseveN; January 15th, 2009 at 05:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's the MOST RELIABLE handgun you've owned jdlv4_0 Pistols 173 April 28th, 2012 07:17 PM
What is the MOST reliable AR Pistol Buffer Kit? ENTHUSIAST General 4 December 22nd, 2008 07:46 PM
WTB: Reliable .45ACP or .40 S&W pistol BerksCountyDave General 1 December 8th, 2008 09:29 PM
M&P's aren't reliable. P-11 shooter General 20 September 29th, 2008 02:51 PM
How Reliable? ••SpraynPray•• General 2 April 29th, 2008 11:39 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Marketing Services provided by MergeMedia.
Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops