The fight in 2009....

[glockman22]

So with 2008 behined us now.what laws should we write in and try to over turn for 09?We were writing in at the end of 08 for the state park thing and won!So i ask you very early in this new year whats important to pa fire arm owners for this year? Is it the stand your ground law? or is it something else but just as important? The question is whats important to you as a gun owner for this year?

[imperialism2024]

Unlicensed car carry.

Currently, our transport laws are as bad as those in New Jersey. Glove box carry would work, but unrestricted carry in a vehicle would be best. One should not need to get a LTCF just to be able to stop for gas on the way home from the range.

This seems to be the most glaring omission in Pennsylvania's generally pro-gun legal landscape.

Other progress I'd like to see:
-Stiff criminal penalties for violation of preemption (i.e. Nutter goes to jail for passing illegal gun laws)
-Legalization of carrying loaded long guns in vehicles, either with or without a LTCF
-Legalization of private handgun sales, thus rendering the illegal PSP database useless. Due to case law, it would be difficult to outright eliminate the PSP database.
-Removal of the "character" clause from the criteria for granting a LTCF... right now, that clause is being abused to make Pennsylvania a "may issue" issue state rather than the "shall issue" state that the UFA intends
-Removal of the licensing requirement for open carry in Philadelphia


At the very bottom of the list are "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" laws. I'd rather have more freedom to carry guns in order to protect my life and the lives of loved ones, than to be able to shoot someone for stealing a lawn gnome or running away with a case of beer.

[glockman22]

Originally Posted by imperialism2024

Unlicensed car carry.

Currently, our transport laws are as bad as those in New Jersey. Glove box carry would work, but unrestricted carry in a vehicle would be best. One should not need to get a LTCF just to be able to stop for gas on the way home from the range.

This seems to be the most glaring omission in Pennsylvania's generally pro-gun legal landscape.

Other progress I'd like to see:
-Stiff criminal penalties for violation of preemption (i.e. Nutter goes to jail for passing illegal gun laws)
-Legalization of carrying loaded long guns in vehicles, either with or without a LTCF
-Legalization of private handgun sales, thus rendering the illegal PSP database useless. Due to case law, it would be difficult to outright eliminate the PSP database.
-Removal of the "character" clause from the criteria for granting a LTCF... right now, that clause is being abused to make Pennsylvania a "may issue" issue state rather than the "shall issue" state that the UFA intends
-Removal of the licensing requirement for open carry in Philadelphia


At the very bottom of the list are "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" laws. I'd rather have more freedom to carry guns in order to protect my life and the lives of loved ones, than to be able to shoot someone for stealing a lawn gnome or running away with a case of beer.

intersesting...some good choices you bring up i like them..but i personaly dont think stand your ground laws are all about shooting a person who is stealing a case of beer.

[imperialism2024]

Originally Posted by glockman22

intersesting...some good choices you bring up i like them..but i personaly dont think stand your ground laws are all about shooting a person who is stealing a case of beer.

Ya caught me... I was using hyperbole.

Take my opinion what it's worth, but it seems to me that it would be more beneficial to allow more people to more easily defend themselves against crimes for which lethal force is currently justified for self-defense, than to expand the justifications for the use of lethal force for the same number of people who are carrying now. It would be nice to do both, but we only have enough political capital to do one or the other.

Not to mention that our self-defense laws are already pretty decent, though admittedly, they could use some summarization.


Perhaps for those who have had a LTCF forever, it is difficult to remember what it is like to be disarmed. Before I turned 21 this past October (and promptly submitted my LTCF application the next day), whenever I had to go into Allentown or Philadelphia, I wasn't too concerned about being able to shoot trespassers on my property... I wanted to be able to protect myself and my friends from being killed or maimed. Unfortunately, that put me in the difficult situation of either carrying a gun illegally, or hoping that traffic won't slow down the ambulance too much.

[glockman22]

Originally Posted by imperialism2024

Ya caught me... I was using hyperbole.

Take my opinion what it's worth, but it seems to me that it would be more beneficial to allow more people to more easily defend themselves against crimes for which lethal force is currently justified for self-defense, than to expand the justifications for the use of lethal force for the same number of people who are carrying now. It would be nice to do both, but we only have enough political capital to do one or the other.

Not to mention that our self-defense laws are already pretty decent, though admittedly, they could use some summarization.


Perhaps for those who have had a LTCF forever, it is difficult to remember what it is like to be disarmed. Before I turned 21 this past October (and promptly submitted my LTCF application the next day), whenever I had to go into Allentown or Philadelphia, I wasn't too concerned about being able to shoot trespassers on my property... I wanted to be able to protect myself and my friends from being killed or maimed. Unfortunately, that put me in the difficult situation of either carrying a gun illegally, or hoping that traffic won't slow down the ambulance too much.

good point

[dlclarkii]

Originally Posted by imperialism2024

Unlicensed car carry.

Currently, our transport laws are as bad as those in New Jersey. Glove box carry would work, but unrestricted carry in a vehicle would be best. One should not need to get a LTCF just to be able to stop for gas on the way home from the range.

This seems to be the most glaring omission in Pennsylvania's generally pro-gun legal landscape.

Other progress I'd like to see:
-Stiff criminal penalties for violation of preemption (i.e. Nutter goes to jail for passing illegal gun laws)
-Legalization of carrying loaded long guns in vehicles, either with or without a LTCF
-Legalization of private handgun sales, thus rendering the illegal PSP database useless. Due to case law, it would be difficult to outright eliminate the PSP database.
-Removal of the "character" clause from the criteria for granting a LTCF... right now, that clause is being abused to make Pennsylvania a "may issue" issue state rather than the "shall issue" state that the UFA intends
-Removal of the licensing requirement for open carry in Philadelphia


At the very bottom of the list are "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" laws. I'd rather have more freedom to carry guns in order to protect my life and the lives of loved ones, than to be able to shoot someone for stealing a lawn gnome or running away with a case of beer.

What I bolded, I strongly agree.

[P89]

I agree with imperialism2024 overall view of the year ahead. However, we need to pick and choose our battles. I feel bigger battles are ahead for us in '09.


Ever hear the story about the young bull & old bull standing on hill?

[Phillygunguy]

ID like to see Castle Doctrine in PA passed, also we gotta be prepared for an AWB now that OBamanation and his liberal fascists are taking over.

[imperialism2024]

Originally Posted by Phillygunguy

ID like to see Castle Doctrine in PA passed, also we gotta be prepared for an AWB now that OBamanation and his liberal fascists are taking over.

First off, "liberal fascist" is kind of a contradiction... but we'll leave that one alone

Care to explain your preference for Castle Doctrine?

And how we can "be prepared" at a state level for an AWB? I mean, there's always the route of secession, and I'd definitely go along with that, but I'm curious if you had something else in mind...

[WhiteFeather]

Originally Posted by glockman22

So with 2008 behined us now.what laws should we write in and try to over turn for 09?We were writing in at the end of 08 for the state park thing and won!So i ask you very early in this new year whats important to pa fire arm owners for this year? Is it the stand your ground law? or is it something else but just as important? The question is whats important to you as a gun owner for this year?

Your WISH List of changes to UFA For Gun Owners benefit and protection of your Firearm Rights.

http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...rotection.html (Your WISH List of changes to UFA For Gun Owners benefit and protection)

You can add some of your comments here for possible action in next session.