PAFOA GROUP SHOOT #21

[RocketFoot]

Originally Posted by bigjlen

im totally for that! could definatly be fun...
maybe bring those flippping targets and some cans & clays to pop?
i have some .22 targets that look like little playing card backs on one side;
you shoot them then flip the target to see who has the better hand. kinda cool.
i can bring some if anyone is interested in playing.

Easter Island .22 Poker Challenge! Sounds cool!

[DaveM55]

Originally Posted by Corey

I'd heard a lot of commodity prices are falling also, but perhaps not the metals used to make bullets and casings. Interesting. Thanks for the answer!

Update From Suarez International USA

HOW LONG DO WE HAVE??
I was in this biz back when Americans turned stupid once before (1992). Remember those days? Ross Perot - the little handgrenade with a bad haircut gave us Bill Clinton by default when Bush I did in fact give us "new taxes" in spite of us trying to read his lips. The backstory during Clinton's first half-term was that the Stockton school shooting and a few other similar events gave California (always a haven for left wing ideology and extremism) a perceived reason to pass their anti-freedom anti-gun law a few years earlier (1989?). Then in 1991 we had the infamous Rodney King deal and the subsequent Race Riots in Los Angeles.

All the usual suspects got involved (Shumer, Kennedy, Boxer, Fiendstein, and all the other let wing socialists in power) and set up the now expired AWB which was finally signed in 1994.

But initially Clinton had plenty of other issues to deal with before getting to that one. He did get to it - eventually - and before the 1994 mid term elections. But if you recall the fall out from that decission caused them to lose the majority in congress. Do we have a similar set of events today? How will this affect us? And how long do we have?

Some points of consideration -

1). The 1990s saw an incredible amount of growth in private sector training and gun businesses, while we saw a shift to the left in politics. These companies were around before, but the prevalence of the Clintons made them grow to an incredible level. It was during this time that Gunsite flourished, and that both Thunder Ranch and Front Sight were created - as well, I think - Blackwater and other training companies. We also saw a distinct shift from sports guns to fighting guns. Winchester model 70s languished in stores while AR-15s flew off the racks.

I think we will see the same things now. Obama (excuse me while I spit) has single handedly armed more people in the past week than any other president in history. These people have bought fighting weapons and the ammo that goes with them. Later they will want to learn how to use them. So "Thanks Barak!"

2). Ammo will go up. That is inevitable. It always has. But just like gasoline...it will only sustain at that level while people are fearful and scarcity-driven enough to pay those prices. As everyone's armory gets filled, the purchases will drop off and sellers will be forced to lower prices to get new sales. How far they lower those prices remains to be seen. A look at gasoline will show a similar trend.

The fear that Obama (excuse me while I spit) will ban ammo is ridiculous and will not happen. Think of the myriad of American companies that will be out of business. People like Winchester, Remington, etc. have political pull, and will keep their doors open. And still....when has ammo ever been banned in the USA. If they can't keep drugs or machineguns out of the hands of illegal alien gangs, how do you think they will eliminate ammo? We need to move on. What may happen is a curtailing of importation of ammo. American ammo makers will need to produce more "training level" ammo to fit the gap. Those that do will reap huge rewards.

3). I do see another AWB in the distance. But not only that. That they will try to do this is a given. I see them trying to target training schools as well. This is what he and his minions want. Not particularly to "keep their little urban hoodlums" safe, or to keep anything out of the hands of criminals, but simply to control the american people more and modify this once great society further down the leftist path. There wasn't much civilian gun ownership nor civilian skil-at-arms schools in Stalin's Russia nor Hitler's Germany either.

Now - before we get all weapy eyed again.

The world is full of problems that Obama (excuse me while I spit) must deal with. And I thank God for every single one of them! The Russians are flexing their muscles in Eastern Europe again. The Israelis will need to make a quick decission about Iran before Obama (excuse me while I spit) is inagurated. And he will have to deal with the fallout from that. Iraq and Afghanistan still remain as issues to deal with, and he will realize that his promise to pull out will not only be a slap in the face to those who have died there (a good many of them friends of mine) but it will also create a devastating power vacuum in the region that will inevitably be filled with Iranians. And let us not forget the economy and all the empty promises made with references to "spreading the wealth". Democrat economic policies always lead to ruin. The only thing that lifts an economy is a conservative-based policy and lowered taxes. So his results will invariably be poor, and he will not be able to confiscate american's wealth without a serious political fight on his hands.
Assault Weapons are on his list, but not as number one. I don't think they are even on the first page. But they are on his list. My best-guess prediction? We won't see this until about 2010, more or less. By 2010 he will had two years to really screw up America, disenchant those who wanted "change", and things will likely be a big mess. Hopefully the imbeciles who voted for him will have come to their senses, and the imbecile Republican party will have come to its senses, and the Senate and House will change the balance of power as it did in 1994. And then there is 2012. We will see.

My suggestions...I have been inundated with emails about which AK to get and what magazines to get and so on. Gents...the word of the day is this. IF YOU SNOOZE - YOU LOSE. You can't get AK kits anymore. Those who waited? Too bad dudes...there are no more. Those who didn't get an AK at reasonable prices? Again...too bad dudes...now you will pay almost twice as much. But waiting, at this point, is simply stupid.

If you want a rifle...GET ONE NOW! Any rifle will do. Yes, I like AKs, but if my choice was a Mini-14 or nothing, I'd say grab up the Mini! If your wife or your mom won't let you, grow some hair on your chest and get one anyway. Buy some flowers on the way home to make up for it. Same goes for ammo. If you don't do it now, and you can't get one due to what we have just discussed coming to pass, or simply due to supply-demand issues, don't call me and ask where you can get a good deal.

Ammo? Looking at four years of Obama (excuse me while I spit) in office, I would suggest the following as minimum. 5000 rounds of each fighting caliber as minimum. Get 1000 rounds of good quality fighting ammo and 4000 rounds of training ammo. Use up 500 - 1000 per year to train (or less), and replace it as used - if possible.

Training? I understand that people are buying more rifles and ammo now, thinking they can train later. Maybe so. But here are a few points.

If you like WT and the DVDs and all the free stuff we share here, send some money to SI/OST. Support those who support you. We will see about offering as much stuff as possible, at as reasonable as possible prices next year. But understand that this activity is on their hit list. Do it while you can. Don't put it off thinking you can do it later.

I have been in this business since the early 1990s and if the country does not bounce back by 2010, I can almost guarantee that training will be gone as well.
So there it is. The time to check the life boat is not when you wake up on the bottom of the sea - it is when the rain begins to fall - and it has been coming down pretty good from where I stand.
__________________
Gabe Suarez

[Hawk]

Price of lead has dropped significantly in the past few month's. It's still not to the levels it was a year ago. Sportsman's Warehouse had 25lb bags of lead shot at $52 (at it's highest), now it's down to $35 (as of two weeks ago).

[notenoughguns]

Originally Posted by DaveM55

Update From Suarez International USA

HOW LONG DO WE HAVE??
I was in this biz back when Americans turned stupid once before (1992). Remember those days? Ross Perot - the little handgrenade with a bad haircut gave us Bill Clinton by default when Bush I did in fact give us "new taxes" in spite of us trying to read his lips. The backstory during Clinton's first half-term was that the Stockton school shooting and a few other similar events gave California (always a haven for left wing ideology and extremism) a perceived reason to pass their anti-freedom anti-gun law a few years earlier (1989?). Then in 1991 we had the infamous Rodney King deal and the subsequent Race Riots in Los Angeles.

All the usual suspects got involved (Shumer, Kennedy, Boxer, Fiendstein, and all the other let wing socialists in power) and set up the now expired AWB which was finally signed in 1994.

But initially Clinton had plenty of other issues to deal with before getting to that one. He did get to it - eventually - and before the 1994 mid term elections. But if you recall the fall out from that decission caused them to lose the majority in congress. Do we have a similar set of events today? How will this affect us? And how long do we have?

Some points of consideration -

1). The 1990s saw an incredible amount of growth in private sector training and gun businesses, while we saw a shift to the left in politics. These companies were around before, but the prevalence of the Clintons made them grow to an incredible level. It was during this time that Gunsite flourished, and that both Thunder Ranch and Front Sight were created - as well, I think - Blackwater and other training companies. We also saw a distinct shift from sports guns to fighting guns. Winchester model 70s languished in stores while AR-15s flew off the racks.

I think we will see the same things now. Obama (excuse me while I spit) has single handedly armed more people in the past week than any other president in history. These people have bought fighting weapons and the ammo that goes with them. Later they will want to learn how to use them. So "Thanks Barak!"

2). Ammo will go up. That is inevitable. It always has. But just like gasoline...it will only sustain at that level while people are fearful and scarcity-driven enough to pay those prices. As everyone's armory gets filled, the purchases will drop off and sellers will be forced to lower prices to get new sales. How far they lower those prices remains to be seen. A look at gasoline will show a similar trend.

The fear that Obama (excuse me while I spit) will ban ammo is ridiculous and will not happen. Think of the myriad of American companies that will be out of business. People like Winchester, Remington, etc. have political pull, and will keep their doors open. And still....when has ammo ever been banned in the USA. If they can't keep drugs or machineguns out of the hands of illegal alien gangs, how do you think they will eliminate ammo? We need to move on. What may happen is a curtailing of importation of ammo. American ammo makers will need to produce more "training level" ammo to fit the gap. Those that do will reap huge rewards.

3). I do see another AWB in the distance. But not only that. That they will try to do this is a given. I see them trying to target training schools as well. This is what he and his minions want. Not particularly to "keep their little urban hoodlums" safe, or to keep anything out of the hands of criminals, but simply to control the american people more and modify this once great society further down the leftist path. There wasn't much civilian gun ownership nor civilian skil-at-arms schools in Stalin's Russia nor Hitler's Germany either.

Now - before we get all weapy eyed again.

The world is full of problems that Obama (excuse me while I spit) must deal with. And I thank God for every single one of them! The Russians are flexing their muscles in Eastern Europe again. The Israelis will need to make a quick decission about Iran before Obama (excuse me while I spit) is inagurated. And he will have to deal with the fallout from that. Iraq and Afghanistan still remain as issues to deal with, and he will realize that his promise to pull out will not only be a slap in the face to those who have died there (a good many of them friends of mine) but it will also create a devastating power vacuum in the region that will inevitably be filled with Iranians. And let us not forget the economy and all the empty promises made with references to "spreading the wealth". Democrat economic policies always lead to ruin. The only thing that lifts an economy is a conservative-based policy and lowered taxes. So his results will invariably be poor, and he will not be able to confiscate american's wealth without a serious political fight on his hands.
Assault Weapons are on his list, but not as number one. I don't think they are even on the first page. But they are on his list. My best-guess prediction? We won't see this until about 2010, more or less. By 2010 he will had two years to really screw up America, disenchant those who wanted "change", and things will likely be a big mess. Hopefully the imbeciles who voted for him will have come to their senses, and the imbecile Republican party will have come to its senses, and the Senate and House will change the balance of power as it did in 1994. And then there is 2012. We will see.

My suggestions...I have been inundated with emails about which AK to get and what magazines to get and so on. Gents...the word of the day is this. IF YOU SNOOZE - YOU LOSE. You can't get AK kits anymore. Those who waited? Too bad dudes...there are no more. Those who didn't get an AK at reasonable prices? Again...too bad dudes...now you will pay almost twice as much. But waiting, at this point, is simply stupid.

If you want a rifle...GET ONE NOW! Any rifle will do. Yes, I like AKs, but if my choice was a Mini-14 or nothing, I'd say grab up the Mini! If your wife or your mom won't let you, grow some hair on your chest and get one anyway. Buy some flowers on the way home to make up for it. Same goes for ammo. If you don't do it now, and you can't get one due to what we have just discussed coming to pass, or simply due to supply-demand issues, don't call me and ask where you can get a good deal.

Ammo? Looking at four years of Obama (excuse me while I spit) in office, I would suggest the following as minimum. 5000 rounds of each fighting caliber as minimum. Get 1000 rounds of good quality fighting ammo and 4000 rounds of training ammo. Use up 500 - 1000 per year to train (or less), and replace it as used - if possible.

Training? I understand that people are buying more rifles and ammo now, thinking they can train later. Maybe so. But here are a few points.

If you like WT and the DVDs and all the free stuff we share here, send some money to SI/OST. Support those who support you. We will see about offering as much stuff as possible, at as reasonable as possible prices next year. But understand that this activity is on their hit list. Do it while you can. Don't put it off thinking you can do it later.

I have been in this business since the early 1990s and if the country does not bounce back by 2010, I can almost guarantee that training will be gone as well.
So there it is. The time to check the life boat is not when you wake up on the bottom of the sea - it is when the rain begins to fall - and it has been coming down pretty good from where I stand.
__________________
Gabe Suarez

I think Dave hit the nail on the head and I' in total agreement . We ( or most of you ) got caught napping and now you'll have to pay !

[1832]

IMHO, perceived scarcity in the near future is driving prices on firearms, ammo and components. Anyone who has seen otherwise rational people mob the supermarkets after the television "weatherheads" call for a heavy snowfall should understand market psychology. Speculation buying on the individual level will of course drive prices even higher. I believe that after the new year we will have a better view of what price and availability in this market will be.

As an analogy, do you really think that Americans driving less has caused the price of crude oil to drop to a third of what it was a few months ago? When the speculators began to bail at the first sign of the stock market decline, that's what affected the oil price. However, the price of oil is highly unlikely to ever drop to its levels of two years ago. The same thing is going to happen to arms, ammo and components. When folks level off their buying, for whatever reason, inventory increases will causes prices to lower, but never to the salad days of 90.00 per thousand 5.56, or 600.00 ARs. FWIW, I'm as depressed as anyone over this prospect, but it is what it is.

Sorry for the rant...

[Tony Fly]

Originally Posted by notenoughguns

I think Dave hit the nail on the head and I' in total agreement . We ( or most of you ) got caught napping and now you'll have to pay !

by "napping" do you mean having trouble making rent and the other bills that have somehow become a necessity in our society? If so, you are very correct.

Can't buy guns when it's hard to even pay the rent... believe me... I would if I could!

[P-11 shooter]

Originally Posted by Tony Fly

by "napping" do you mean having trouble making rent and the other bills that have somehow become a necessity in our society? If so, you are very correct.

Can't buy guns when it's hard to even pay the rent... believe me... I would if I could!

Great post. I can't buy ammo for two weeks because I need new workboots.


Sucks being po' sometimes.

[Atomic Dog]

Originally Posted by P-11 shooter

Great post. I can't buy ammo for two weeks because I need new workboots.


Sucks being po' sometimes.

And by "workboots" you mean hookers and blow?

[ithinkimamedic]

Originally Posted by Joe Smith

And by "workboots" you mean hookers and blow?

DING! - one might think your brothers the way your inside he his!

[Tony Fly]

Originally Posted by P-11 shooter

Great post. I can't buy ammo for two weeks because I need new workboots.


Sucks being po' sometimes.

So True!

Originally Posted by Joe Smith

And by "workboots" you mean hookers and blow?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now thats funny right there!