Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
HB2011 and HB1243 Updates

So far, there hasn't been a 2nd Consideration vote on either of these bills. WE NEED TO KEEP UP THE PRESSURE, and continue to contact our legislators - ask them to tell House leadership to bring these bills to a vote! Ask them to vote YES on HB2011, and NO on the Universal Background Check amendment. In addition, the FOAC is requesting support for an amendment proposed to HB1243 (Mental Health Records for Firearms Purchases) that, if passed, will allow HB1243 to restore firearm rights to those who have recovered from a mental illness.


For more information and updates on these efforts,
CLICK HERE

For legislator contact information,
CLICK HERE


Go Back   Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Discussion > General

Notices

General General firearm-related talk that does not fit into any of the other forums.

PAFOA Sponsors Businesses that provide financial and technical support to PAFOA. PAFOA Shopping Partners A percentage of all sales made through these partner links goes to PAFOA.
Arms Dealer Logo

Arms Dealer — Free Firearm Classifieds, Gun Shop & Shooting Range Reviews

Arms Dealer is your one-stop shop for free firearm classifieds, gun shop & shooting range reviews.

Join today to start buying, selling and reviewing!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old March 7th, 2007
Mtbkski's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Beaverdale, Pennsylvania
(Cambria County)
Age: 54
Posts: 4,699
Rep Power: 31744
Mtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond reputeMtbkski has a reputation beyond repute
Default +P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

I am getting back into the shooting thing. I have seen ammo listed as +P+.

1) What the heck is this stuff?

2) How do I know if my pistol will handle it?

3) I heard that the +P+ ammo in 9mm makes it rate with a 45 acp. Is this true? This would make a 9 mm very good for self defense wouldn't it?

4) What are your thoughts on the +P+ ammo out there?
__________________
The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control....
The day they want my guns, they'll have to bring theirs!!!
Proud to be One of the 3%
Reply With Quote

Thanks for visiting our forum! If you ever plan to return you should consider quickly registering for a forum account, especially if you're in Pennsylvania. It's simple to do and best of all free. Once registered you'll be able to participate in our discussions and keep up to date on issues important to Pennsylvania firearm owners!

  #2 (permalink)  
Old March 7th, 2007
Holleta's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
NE PA, Pennsylvania
(Luzerne County)
Age: 46
Posts: 698
Rep Power: 9
Holleta will become famous soon enoughHolleta will become famous soon enough
Default Re: +P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

+P is hot ammo
+P+ is extra hot ammo
both are higher pressure loads

+P+ is not recommended in many firearms.
It will also beat you and your gun up more than is necessary.

In most circumstance you would be better off with quality standard 9mm or perhaps..... +P 9mm. Both offer plenty of stopping power with less recoil/control issues or possible flinching.

Accuracy and shot placement carry much more weight than an extra + sign or two IMO.
__________________
Guns are good.
If you can't fry it you shouldn't eat it
Loud pipes save lives
Mom spelled backwards spells....mom
"Please don't squeeze the Charmin." ~ Mr. Whipple
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old March 7th, 2007
Nate's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Hanover, Pennsylvania
(York County)
Age: 28
Posts: 726
Rep Power: 2180
Nate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: +P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holleta View Post
+P is hot ammo
+P+ is extra hot ammo
both are higher pressure loads

+P+ is not recommended in many firearms.
It will also beat you and your gun up more than is necessary.

In most circumstance you would be better off with quality standard 9mm or perhaps..... +P 9mm. Both offer plenty of stopping power with less recoil/control issues or possible flinching.

Accuracy and shot placement carry much more weight than an extra + sign or two IMO.
Thanks that helps me out... I was about to ask the same question
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old March 8th, 2007
The Drew's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Sunbury, Pennsylvania
(Northumberland County)
Age: 35
Posts: 683
Rep Power: 54
The Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond reputeThe Drew has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: +P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate View Post
Thanks that helps me out... I was about to ask the same question

Be careful, +p is a SAAMI standard, where as +p+ or other designations like it are not. It can be dangerous in some circumstances and just a marketing tool in others...

+p is safe in any pistol that is rated for it. Most modern pistols have no problems with +p
__________________
Drew Bingaman Chair Susquehanna Valley Libertarian Party
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old March 8th, 2007
Nate's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Hanover, Pennsylvania
(York County)
Age: 28
Posts: 726
Rep Power: 2180
Nate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: +P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Drew View Post
Be careful, +p is a SAAMI standard, where as +p+ or other designations like it are not. It can be dangerous in some circumstances and just a marketing tool in others...

+p is safe in any pistol that is rated for it. Most modern pistols have no problems with +p
Thanks for the warning, I plan to stay away from the +p+ loads. Sounds like a good way to ruin my new gun.

I just bought 2 boxes of Cor-Bon 20 RD. 380+P 90GR. JHP ammo.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old March 8th, 2007
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Landenberg, Pennsylvania
(Chester County)
Age: 39
Posts: 1,136
Rep Power: 210
Rule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond reputeRule10b5 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: +P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

Just to expand on what The Drew said:

+p+ is a meaningless designation. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute ("SAAMI") sets pressure standards for most sorts of ammunition. Basically, they set up what is or is not an acceptable pressure designation for any given load.

A given load of 9mm ammo, for example, must have a pressure averaging no greater than 35,000 psi.

9mm +p must be no greater than 38,500 psi.


Anything over 38,500 psi for 9mm is not able to be graded and is, certainly, not SAAMI compliant.

There is no SAAMI +p+ grade for 9mm.

The flip side, of course, as The Drew mentioned, is that precisely because +p+ doesn't exist, anyone can call their ammo +p+ and SAAMI isn't going to say anything. Thus, you could market 25,000 psi at +p+ and it wouldn't be untrue, simply because the designation is meaningless.

Most companies, though, tend to use +p+ to mean "really hot." The two main sellers of +p+ 9mm ammunition are Remington and Winchester (and Federal to a lesser extent), who sell a couple of specialty loads to police or other law enforcement agencies that sign waivers. Any dealer stocking Remington or Winchester +p+ ammo is "technically" supposed to have executed an agreement that they'll only sell to law enforcement. The Federal stuff is easier to get, IMHO.

Anyway, this isn't widely true in practice -- most shops sign off, and then sell to anyone.

In any case, most modern guns are fine with +p+ from Winchester and Remington. Glock, HK (except the P7 series due to the gas piston), S&W, & Sig. guns made in the last 20 years can pretty much be run on a heavy diet of +p+ ammo without worry from Remington or Winchester. They'll wear out faster, but I've never seen a Kaboom! because of +p+ ammo in any of these guns. I've fired thousands of +p+ loads out of Glocks with no problems at all.

One last comment: NATO spec for 9mm is 42,000 psi. If someone is selling "NATO" 9mm, and it's in real NATO marked boxes, you can be fairly sure it is hot ammo. This is what is shot in the Beretta 92s issued to the US Army, I think. There have also been limited import runs of really really hot 9mm NATO marked "submachine gun only." The last will, definitely, damage most pistols.

EDIT TO ADD: Federal's +p+ 9mm 124 gr. Hydrashok load is completely lame. It is actually slower than Winchester's regular +p 124 gr. load. Waste of money.
__________________
The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

In plain English, while I am an attorney, I'm NOT your attorney, and I'm NOT giving you legal advice.

Last edited by Rule10b5; March 8th, 2007 at 03:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old March 8th, 2007
Nate's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Hanover, Pennsylvania
(York County)
Age: 28
Posts: 726
Rep Power: 2180
Nate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond reputeNate has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: +P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule10b5 View Post
Federal's +p+ 9mm 124 gr. Hydrashok load is completely lame. It is actually slower than Winchester's regular +p 124 gr. load. Waste of money.
LOL! thats ridiculous.

Thanks for the added info
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old March 8th, 2007
PA Rifleman's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
..- -. .. - . -.. ... - .- - . ...
Posts: 2,823
Rep Power: 55449
PA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond reputePA Rifleman has a reputation beyond repute
Default Overloaded ammunition.

http://tinyurl.com/33hyr5

http://tinyurl.com/32nk7y
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old December 30th, 2008
Jackal's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location:
south east, Pennsylvania
(Chester County)
Posts: 853
Rep Power: 103
Jackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond reputeJackal has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: +P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

Is there a decided advantage in using such +p ammo in say a 9mm? If it is not dangerous in modern guns, why not standardize it and issue warnings for older guns familiar to "normal" 9mm loads?
__________________
President of The Kansas Firearm Owners Association www.ksfoa.org
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old December 30th, 2008
Frenchy's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location:
Terrebonne, Quebec, Canada
Age: 54
Posts: 3,378
Rep Power: 160936
Frenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond reputeFrenchy has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Frenchy
Default Re: +P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

Correct me if i am wrong, but I do believe the +P is also more resistant when reloading. Is it possible that +P+ would be even more so?

Not talking original store bought here, but for people who reload I am thinking a +P+ in say 38 would be like a cut down .357 as far as the casing goes. Walls a bit thicker to allow for more pressure a longer time. = (More reloads before they crack or split)
At least this is what i seem to remember having been told.
__________________
Skeet is a sport where you are better to hit half of each bird then completely blast one and miss the other completely.

The choice is yours, place your faith in the court system and 12 of your peers, or carried away by 6 friends.

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit. 'Nobody provokes me with impunity'
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
Clint Eastwood
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTS- AMMO 5.56 NATO and 223 AMMO 44zebra General 2 January 28th, 2007 03:05 PM
Give your county an accronym! Frenchy General 9 December 2nd, 2006 11:12 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Marketing Services provided by MergeMedia.
Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops