Your ideas, about gun control

[LastManOut]

Originally Posted by exceltoexcel

I do not agree with minimum sentencing requirements, Every case has its own nuances and should be left to the discretion of those that actually trial and convict the offender. Some instances and some people deserve a break.

Drugs should be legal 100% of the way because it should be my right to destroy my body should I choose to do so..

My point about the judges and District Attorneys meting out light sentences in favor of touchy-feely social treatment programs, makes my case, I believe, for mandatory sentences. Provisions can be provided for the few special cases, but you must admit the current system isn't working.

Drugs not only destroy YOUR BODY, but other innocents bodies as well. I.e. driving under the influence, suicide, murder, armed robbery, child/ spouse/ elder abuse, poverty, health care costs. A totally anarchist society will not be the utopia many believe.

[LorDiego01]

Originally Posted by LastManOut

Drugs not only destroy YOUR BODY, but other innocents bodies as well. I.e. driving under the influence, suicide, murder, armed robbery, child/ spouse/ elder abuse, poverty, health care costs. A totally anarchist society will not be the utopia many believe.

No. The War on Drugs causes suicide, murder and armed robbery. Blaming drugs for crime is the same logic as....

blaming guns for crime.

Fox example, how many drive by shootings, armed robbery and murders do you see for a six-pack of beer? Or even a bottle of Whiskey??

Now, back when alcohol prohibition was around, how much crime did we have for alcohol??

And didnt all this crime go away when prohibition was out of the picture??

[phillyd2]

I think many times what gets lost in the debate is that life is not just making money. Its about dignity, respect and sense of self worth. This is what the Welfare State killed. The question was what do we do now? Where do we go from here? Lock 'em up sounds good on a bumper sticker and I agree that all who commit violent crime have forfeited their right to walk among us but the vast majority of the poor who are without hope do not commit such crimes and even many who do such crimes are doing so because of their environment. None are born evil.

[billamj]

Originally Posted by LorDiego01

No. The War on Drugs causes suicide, murder and armed robbery. Blaming drugs for crime is the same logic as....

blaming guns for crime.

Fox example, how many drive by shootings, armed robbery and murders do you see for a six-pack of beer? Or even a bottle of Whiskey??

Now, back when alcohol prohibition was around, how much crime did we have for alcohol??

And didnt all this crime go away when prohibition was out of the picture??

Actually Diego you do see murder for booze on the streets of this nation. One of the major reasons for that is Johnson and company emptying the "mental institutes" because the people weren't getting the amount of care that his cronies thought they needed. That in turn gave us a huge group of street people and that continues through today because everyone has been afraid to say that we need to take these people and force them to stay somewhere where they can be safe and get three hots and a cot at the very least.

[LorDiego01]

Originally Posted by phillyd2

... and even many who do such crimes are doing so because of their environment. None are born evil...

I believe science has proven you wrong my friend. Steven Pinker describes it in his latest book.

We agree that some people are born more artistic than others, other more athletic, some are born smarter, some dumber, and sadly, some more "criminal" than others.

[billamj]

Originally Posted by phillyd2

None are born evil.

Methinks that at the very least you would like to rephrase this comment. I can think of many names like Dahmer, Manson, and the BTK killer who all came from decent families but were "strange" or "different" or "colder" by description from other family members.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by LastManOut

Drugs not only destroy YOUR BODY, but other innocents bodies as well. I.e. driving under the influence, suicide, murder, armed robbery, child/ spouse/ elder abuse, poverty, health care costs.

That may well be true for some people. Of course that begs the question of whether drug prohibition actually reduces drug use by even one ounce. If not -- we have drug use anyway, AND all the evils of the War on Drugs.

[phillyd2]

Originally Posted by dgg9

The "root cause" is obviously not economic since inner cities have had dire poverty well before the modern crime era started in the 1960s.

IMO, root causes usually trace back to unintended consequences of poorly thought out governmental programs:

1. Welfare -- THE biggest indicator of how kids turn out is the nuclear 2-parent house, yet the welfare state has created huge percentages of illegitimate children in the inner cities. Those young males have no role models except for drug dealers as created by the ....

2. War on Drugs -- has created more entry level criminal careers than any other policy in recent memory. One study showed that if you subtracted all Drug War related crime from the US stats, the US crimes stats would like much like any other western country.

Completely disagree, with the first parts anyway.

I'm old enough to remember living in Philadelphia in the early 60's. Today, you would not walk around while armed at noon on the street I played on as a 6 year old. Pick any major city and look at the old warehouses. These were the manufacturing base of the country up to the mid to late 60's. Or should we say, up to the time we started the War on Poverty and the Great Society social programs. Hello, my name is irony.

I'm also a product of a single mom, we were poorer than dirt and I did enough drugs to kill a horse. However I never knocked over a 7-11. Why?

.......we did move out of the city for more opportunities before I got trapped in hopelessness.

[billamj]

Originally Posted by dgg9

That may well be true for some people. Of course that begs the question of whether drug prohibition actually reduces drug use by even one ounce. If not -- we have drug use anyway, AND all the evils of the War on Drugs.

It certainly has stopped me, so that would account for more than one ounce right there.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by phillyd2

I'm old enough to remember living in Philadelphia in the early 60's. Today, you would not walk around while armed at noon on the street I played on as a 6 year old. Pick any major city and look at the old warehouses. These were the manufacturing base of the country up to the mid to late 60's. Or should we say, up to the time we started the War on Poverty and the Great Society social programs. Hello, my name is irony.

I don't detect much disagreement here.

The loss of urban manufacturing jobs is yet another artifact of government -- business-unfriendly policies and taxes have driven blue collar jobs out of every major city.

I'm also a product of a single mom, we were poorer than dirt and I did enough drugs to kill a horse. However I never knocked over a 7-11. Why?

Because you were the exception, not the rule. In many inner cities, illegitimacy rates are 70%.