The right for police to lie?

[Michele]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

that is just not realistic. many, many people get convicted for crimes they did not commit.

the innocence project, for example, exists for a reason.

do a google search for "wrongly convicted". it will make you understand that "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about" is a complete fallacy.

and, even if you don't end up getting convicted, you can have your whole life basically destroyed.

ask people like brandon mayfield, richard jewel, steven hatfill, willie earl green, etc. if the philosophy that you have nothing to worry about if you have done nothing wrong holds true.

AGREED, LRT.

However, isn't it usually the jury that convicts. Normally when a case is being reviewed, there are allot more involved than just the police. By the time a case goes to trial its well beyond the police.

Can I say too many cooks spoil the soup?

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by Michele

However, isn't it usually the jury that convicts. Normally when a case is being reviewed, there are allot more involved than just the police. By the time a case goes to trial its well beyond the police.

yes, of course.

however, the road to conviction (whether correct or not) starts with the first police contact. anything you say from the very first contact with the police will be used against you if it ends up going down that road...and you can't take what you've said back once you realize you are on that road.

[jon'76]

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[Michele]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

yes, of course.

however, the road to conviction (whether correct or not) starts with the first police contact. anything you say from the very first contact with the police will be used against you if it ends up going down that road...and you can't take what you've said back once you realize you are on that road.

Lets just agree that the justice system is (for lack of a better word) flawed. It couldn't possibly be any other way, because, the justice system is run by humans, and seen through human eyes, which are obviously flawed. **shrug**

It can be a vicious circle.

Unfortunately, some get hit without even being in front of the fan.

[Wynder]

Originally Posted by pacodelahoya

Another thing they ask is "do you know why I pulled you over?"

Always, always, always answer no. If you say yes, I was doing this or that, then you are getting a ticket, because you just admitted to whatever it is they pulled you over for, and your confession will be in the coments of the ticket.

If you say 'No' then, depending on the reason he pulled you over, he could cite you for inattentive driving or argue in court that you weren't paying attention. Answer the question with a question...

Q: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"

A: "How may I help you officer?"

[tl_3237]

Originally Posted by Hawk

I also have another reason that I will state after I get the info I'm looking for.

OK Hawk. I think you got the answer. Now let the 'other shoe drop' - what's the other reason?

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by tl_3237

OK Hawk. I think you got the answer. Now let the 'other shoe drop' - what's the other reason?

Thanks for asking! Someone hit on it early in the thread. But here goes anyways.

It occurs to me that police officers need/want to be in control of every situation they encounter - right? Since they are only human and typically don't have law degrees and can't possibly know all the laws on the books, they have to use their best judgment when faced with something they haven't experienced before or been trained on.

So, in my humble opinion when LEO's stop someone with a gun that's "exposed" they may make up a story (lie) just to try to coerce you to correct what they feel is inappropriate behavior (in their opinion). This lie can be that it’s illegal, or that you’re frightening people, or the shop owner complained, or what ever. The police officer may know that it is legal, but to get you to comply with his wishes, he lies.

Today’s society has changed since 911, and with all the mass murders that were committed lately by a "nut with a gun". I think people in general, and LEO's have been sensitized by these events and have a tendency to overreact when getting a report or seeing a man with a gun.

Don’t you think Airport security has become ridiculous since 911? Will this hypersensitivity to domestic terrorism and " a nut with a gun" subside one day?


Please never forget what happened on 911, but to that end, what freedoms might have been given up or questioned since then?

[webgun]

A lot of interesting advice given in this thread, some good, and some bad. Thats the nature of the beast, and even good attorney's give bad advice sometimes.
Bottom line is, if you don't like police using "investigative techniques" on you, don't do the crime.

[P-11 shooter]

Originally Posted by webgun

A lot of interesting advice given in this thread, some good, and some bad. Thats the nature of the beast, and even good attorney's give bad advice sometimes.
Bottom line is, if you don't like police using "investigative techniques" on you, don't do the crime.

You don't have to "do the crime" to find yourself on the receiving end of these "investigative techniques."

Please go back and re-read Little Red Toyota's posts.

[P-11 shooter]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

a few issues contribute to that.

1. many people have no faith that whether or not you get tried and convicted has anything to do with whether or not you are actually guilty. too many innocent people get convicted of crimes they have not committed.

the police ask for the confession by saying something like "if you just confess, we will help you get leniency. if you don't cooperate, you will end up going to jail for much longer".

the person thinks "crap, i didn't do this, but i will get convicted and railroaded and sent to jail anyway because i can't afford a decent lawyer and the public defender's office is woefully underfunded and incapable of properly defending anyone due to their ridiculous case load. so, i guess i should just cut my losses and confess to minimize my pain. after all, even though i an innocent, my only two choices are to either go to jail for X years or for 2X years. i guess i'll take X years."

2. some people have an extremely strong desire to please and avoid confrontation (for some it is even a personality disorder). you want them to say X, you are an authority figure...with enough pressure, they will say X to please you.



you are a strong person who knows how things really work. you can likely also afford a decent lawyer. many people are neither that strong nor capable of affording a lawyer.



i don't think there are many officers who would say they saw you do something they know you did not do.

how many would lie and say they saw you do something they think you might have done (but don't really have any evidence), though?

i'm not even saying it is not good police work. however, you gotta admit that such tactics make it quite prudent to refuse to answer the questions of any officer you do not know. if it is a common practice for police to lie to people, it is only rational to assume a random officer who is asking you questions might be lying to you.

of course, the unfortunate reality of our world is that it is prudent to just not trust anyone you don't know, regardless of their profession.

Once again, you explained my exact thoughts on a subject WAY better than I could have.