Drugs + guns = DEATH!

[Philbert]

I don't think the problem is zero tolerance since no lawbreaking should be tolerated. The problem is ridiculous mandatory minimum sentencing that tie the judge's hands and result in lengthy prison terms for nonviolent crimes.

Another major problem is the ever-expanding number of crimes (especially federal crimes). I think this is discussed in that video that everyone posts on why you should not talk to the police. There are thousands of federal crimes, and more are added each year. We continually talk about "felons" and whether or not they should have this or that right, but the definition of felon has been distorted beyond all recognition of its original meaning. When the Heller court spoke of the "longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons", they overlooked the fact that for most of history, the number of ways in which one could be a felon were far fewer than they are today. I can imagine the reaction if you went back to the founders and told them that one day people would lose the right to bear arms for possession of plants.

[halo23pa]

I was under the impression that in order for one to loose the ability to own firearms they must have a felony conviction. If there was only a small amount of MJ and a pipe it wouldn't be a felony, IIRC. So is the beef the fact that he had firearms and drugs in the same location or will he lose his firearm rights just because its a drug violation (felony or not)?

[P-11 shooter]

Originally Posted by halo23pa

I was under the impression that in order for one to loose the ability to own firearms they must have a felony conviction. If there was only a small amount of MJ and a pipe it wouldn't be a felony, IIRC. So is the beef the fact that he had firearms and drugs in the same location or will he lose his firearm rights just because its a drug violation (felony or not)?

That's what most people believe, however you can lose them for.

1. Any crime that carries a possible sentence of more than ONE year. It doesn't matter what you got sentenced with, only what you COULD have been sentenced with.

2. ANY conviction under the controlled substances act. (including small amounts or paraphernalia)

3. If you are involuntarily committed to a mental institution.

[Brown-Bear]

I may not agreee with most in that WEED is the new scurge thrust upon America and that all who smoke or have ever smoked should be tossed in the slammer, but it is illegal today, it was not always illegal, but it is now. We live in a country with laws, some that are easy to justify for the masses, others that are not easily justified to anyone save for those who made them. Regardless if you can't follow the rules you get punished. Should you lose your rights for these offenses, I used to say yes.

I have changed my thinking on this issue. I once thought that if you cannot follow the rules and are therfore a criminal then why should you be allowed to own a gun once you get out of jail, Right? Wrong, If we as society let a person out of jail, then they are "rehabilitated" right? Make no mistake we let them out, we elect the judges and law makers so we only have ourselves to blame for the repeat offenders. So if this person is rehabilitated to the point he is released from prison, and given all his other rights back then why not his/her 2A rights. We don't take away his 1A rights to free speech do we? So why the 2A loss?

I know I may have opened a "can-o-worms" here, but I had to say it.

Dave

[P-11 shooter]

Originally Posted by Philbert

I I can imagine the reaction if you went back to the founders and told them that one day people would lose the right to bear arms for possession of plants.

Why do you have to make so much sense when i'm all repped out

[bogey1]

Originally Posted by Brown-Bear

I may not agreee with most in that WEED is the new scurge thrust upon America and that all who smoke or have ever smoked should be tossed in the slammer, but it is illegal today, it was not always illegal, but it is now. We live in a country with laws, some that are easy to justify for the masses, others that are not easily justified to anyone save for those who made them. Regardless if you can't follow the rules you get punished. Should you lose your rights for these offenses, I used to say yes.

I have changed my thinking on this issue. I once thought that if you cannot follow the rules and are therfore a criminal then why should you be allowed to own a gun once you get out of jail, Right? Wrong, If we as society let a person out of jail, then they are "rehabilitated" right? Make no mistake we let them out, we elect the judges and law makers so we only have ourselves to blame for the repeat offenders. So if this person is rehabilitated to the point he is released from prison, and given all his other rights back then why not his/her 2A rights. We don't take away his 1A rights to free speech do we? So why the 2A loss?

I know I may have opened a "can-o-worms" here, but I had to say it.

Dave

brown bear, you didnt open a can of worms. you made a point and a good one. its just another reason for big bro to remove firearms from the general public. just like the law that was supposed to be passed (maybe it was ?) if your child was on riddelin he or she loses his or her rights to own a firearm when he or she becomes an adult. in other words, in the near future this country should be rid of firearms......

[chugger95]

Originally Posted by shooter357

I have at least two close friends that smoke or at least used to. They did it for strictly personal enjoyment and in the privacy of the home. It didn't run their lives or interfere with there socialization. Even though I have never done any illegal drugs in my life I am not opposed to people toking up a fattie, so long as it doesn't interfere with their judgment. He did break the law but I would not catagorize him a criminal for that. With that in mind I would have to say that he is also not a patriot either.
Why did the police search the house anyway?

I have one friend that died from a heroin overdose, and quite a few others that their lives were almost in ruins until they got smart and quit the drugs. All of them started just smoking pot strictly for personal enjoyment. Eventually it led to harder stuff. Even if it is strictly for personal enjoyment there are other problems with it. You ever meet a pot head, they never have any money because they are constantly spending it on dope. They are always too stupid or stoned to hold down a decent job. Eventually society will burden the costs to support these people.

Either way the law is the law. If you don't like it, write to congress just like the rest of us have to.

I know that most of this can be said about alcohol, which can be a big problem for some people also. But, it is not currently illegal.

[emsjeep]

there is no mandatory reporting for what kind of medication you take, many children are forced to take drugs they don't need. You only loose rights if you are declared a menatl defective or have been confined to an institution.

The requiremnet of the law to deny felons firearms stems from a knowledge that rehabilitation doesn't work and that most violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders.

[P-11 shooter]

Originally Posted by chugger95

I have one friend that died from a heroin overdose, and quite a few others that their lives were almost in ruins until they got smart and quit the drugs. All of them started just smoking pot strictly for personal enjoyment. Eventually it led to harder stuff. Even if it is strictly for personal enjoyment there are other problems with it. You ever meet a pot head, they never have any money because they are constantly spending it on dope. They are always too stupid or stoned to hold down a decent job. Eventually society will burden the costs to support these people.

Either way the law is the law. If you don't like it, write to congress just like the rest of us have to.

I know that most of this can be said about alcohol, which can be a big problem for some people also. But, it is not currently illegal.

We grew up in the same town so I can relate to havin gfriends on heroin, and ODing. Luckily all of them are OK now, but they were bad for a while.

Sometimes potheads are poor and have crappy jobs, but there are people who smoke casually, and don't spend all their money on pot. I had an ex who woud routinely drop $70+ at the bar a night, so I can't see a pot tab being all that bad.


As for the whole "if you don't like it write to congress" thing. Well, I don't like it and I think I could write to congress until i'm old enough for prostate exams and it won't do a damn bit of good. I say fuck the law, and do whatever drugs you want, but be fucking careful because the cost of getting caught is steep.

[XD40coyote]

There are potheads like there are alcoholics, but at least with potheads they aren't getting aggressive and attacking others stupidly, nor are they speeding all over the roadways like drunk drivers tend to do. Probably driving too slow and weaving is more common with potheads. I don't even hear about driving while intoxicated cases of potheads.

BTW I have known several people over the years who are casual users of the stuff, never any trouble, never aggressive. I don't hang out with anyone like that anymore though, this was mostly back in college when I knew these people. However I know 3 people right now who may or may not still be using.

Oh yeah and the medical uses? I once had it tested it on an animal ( ZOMG tell peta). In college I was friends with this fellow weird artist and my dog at the time had cancer and was getting chemo. Dogs do not react the same as people to chemo, but a few times he wouldn't eat after getting it. As to why I was spending to have chemo, wouldn't you take care of your carry gun? He was all I had between me and the thugs in Baltimore, and the 2 of us had REALLY bonded. But anyway, this one day he was very listless and would not eat at all since the day before and I mentioned it to my friend. We were at her place and the dog was sleeping on her bed, and I woke him up and she blew the smoke shotgun up his nose ( I never smoked the stuff). After about 10 minutes he got real perky and alert and we got some food or another and he gulped it up. Didn't throw up either.