Drugs + guns = DEATH!

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by P-11 shooter

I've heard statements like this, and other things like it many, many times on this forum. I've heard people say they'd leave their gun at home if they were having one beer.

I've also heard that anyone irresponsible to use ILLEGAL drugs is too irresponsible to own a firearm.

Well, the case of the man who took a loaded gun to a hearing had me thinking. During a search of his house the police found a small amount of ILLEGAL marijuana. It has also been insinuated that this person is forum member PEX who many have pledged to support.

Well, this person IS a "criminal." He was found with illegal narcotics. And despite the fact that I think pot is less dangerous than alcohol, many people on here think these "addicts" should not be able to own guns.

Well, are we going to support this man?

Is he a patriot, or a criminal?

Just curious if a dismissal of the drug charge would (should?) have any bearing on the matter?
(see attachment)

[Carnes]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Just curious if a dismissal of the drug charge would (should?) have any bearing on the matter?
(see attachment)

I would think the dismissal of the drug charge absolutely should have a bearing on the matter. Unfortunately there are many people who are so well sold on the anti-drug propaganda that they will leave the guy under the bus, and keep running him over just because the question was brought up. Our media culture, with its desperate need to sensationalize everything, has taught us that it is okay to pass judgment on people just because someone was charged with a crime... That way, they never need to actually follow up on a story and see if there is an actual conviction. Life is more entertaining and dramatic for the masses when we don't bother with due process.


As a side note, I thought this might help out some interested parties...

How to find out if someone is an evil-drug-user:

Drugs make people 'high' which is because of the evil spirits in the drugs that actually make the person lighter. If you throw a person suspected of being 'high' in a lake they will float in the water if they are in fact high and should be put to death immediately, for the sake of the children. If the suspect sinks in the lake and drowns, you then know that the person was not 'high' and should bless his/her soul. Happy hunting!

[edstephan]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Just curious if a dismissal of the drug charge would (should?) have any bearing on the matter?
(see attachment)

Drug charge or not, I support the man.
The drug charge was the result of an illegal search according to what I have heard.
Apparently most here don’t understand the PA Constitution “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned”
Most here think that this statements has caveats because of their indoctrination by the public schools and the major media.

I just hope this is not the beginnings of a plea bargain that will strip him of his firearm rights for the sake of expediency to put everything behind him.

Ed

[RoyJackson]

First, I'll say I am a proponent of drug legalization. It's just I'm of the opinion that government has no business dictating what a citizen ingests or does with their bodies.
Of course, those same folks must take responsibility for those actions. If addiction happens, don't come crying to me! Same thing applies to the guy who shoots a hole through his roof aftering downing that 5th beer while handling his hunting rifle.

There's also the costs of prohibition, but that's not germane to this thread.

That said, the folks who posted that users of marijuana are not responsible enough to possess firearms are basing their opinions upon the government's decision that marijuana is bad (as compared to the legal drug, alcohol). This is the same government that is trying to criminalize semi-auto sporting rifles that happen to have pistol grips and detachable magazines...what some erroneously call "assault rifles".
How can one agree with one government determination and disagree with another?

In a free society, somes folks are going to say and do things that others abhor...price of freedom.

[Keith4001r]

Originally Posted by P-11 shooter

I've seen many people who have never smoked a joint in my life that I would not want to own guns.

Just because a man smokes a little reefer does not mean they are irresponsible, OR pose a danger to anyone by owning guns.


I've seen discussions like this get pretty heated. I hope we can keep common sense in this discussion.

Zero tolerance leave no room for common sense.

My 2 cents- I tell my sons (15 & 16) that Marijuana will hurt you in the end because it's illegal. It will hurt you because of the laws forbidding it. I truly believe there is nothing morally wrong with MaryJane but it's legal status.

Now, if someone willingly breaks any law that puts their LTCF or RKBA in jeopardy, like driving after a few beers, not paying court ordered child support or posession of devil weeds, they do so with the foreknowledge that they stand the chance of losing these rights.

If Pex is the subject of this post, I wish him the best of luck.

Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances.

Keith
Not rollin' the bones yet

[xXWildPonyXx]

marijuana is currently legal in 13 states for medicinal use i don't think they are having a overabundance of zombie like people walking around. i smoked pot 1 time a week - 1 time a month up until the point i bought a handgun for self defense. only because i heard that if you are in a self defense shooting they can test your blood for intoxicants and a illegal drug wouldn't look good in court. I am still for medicinal marijuana and not medicinal marijuana. Marijuana doesn't have to be smoked it can be ingested, topical ointment, maybe even a suppository :-)

for all you people that that are against marijuana you probably start to embrace it. from what i have been reading lately Obama-ram-a will most likely lift the federal restrictions on marijuana so that the states can individually set there own rules and they polled the people that vote on it in PA and majority said they would vote for medicinal marijuana if it came up for vote. and i believe there is a bill on hold right now waiting possibly till Obama lifts the restrictions.


Now this made me wonder all of you who were against marijuana because it is a illegal drug. lets say in 6 months its legal for medicinal use in all 50 states would you still think the same way or would you treat it just like alcohol?


just an interesting thing i found when i searched marijuana

5. Q: Has anyone ever died from smoking marijuana?
A: No; not even once. American Judge Francis Young studied all the evidence in 198 and ruled that "marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume." The federal agency NIDA says that autopsies show 75 people per year are high on marijuana when they die, but this does not mean marijuana is a factor in any of their deaths.

Deaths per year from:
tobacco=340,000-395,000
Alcohol (not including accidents)=125,000+
Drug overdose (prescription)=14,000-27,000
Drug overdose (illegal)=3,800-5,200
Marijuana=0

[emsjeep]

I probly said some bad things earlier in this thread about drugs...with that in mind I have a new proposal...All drugs should be legal, however, if your use of a drug endangers the lives of the public...ie. driving on the wrong side of the highway style crap, then I should be able to kill you without consequence. We will go back to early Norse law, if you kill someone in public you cannot be exiled and branded for death for murder, if you conceal the killing then you have the mark placed upon you and should be killed by anyone who comes across you. Medical pot is just like any medical narcotic, why have one and not the other...who knows, but if you willfully break the law you should accept the fact that you are putting certain rights in jeapordy ...whether they should be at risk is another discussion...

[granuale]

Originally Posted by emsjeep

I probly said some bad things earlier in this thread about drugs...with that in mind I have a new proposal...All drugs should be legal, however, if your use of a drug endangers the lives of the public...ie. driving on the wrong side of the highway style crap, then I should be able to kill you without consequence.

Sure thing ems. But I get to kill you without consequence if your behavior endagers the public too right? So if you drive with too little sleep, cross the street while on your phone, ride a bike at night without proper illumination?

Why do you want to kill so bad? The drug war is killing so many right now. Lets stop the killing and let people be. If they do something to hurt someone, I think we can agree they need to be punished, but no - you don't get to kill willy nilly. And how long would you last in such a society?

Oh, and if your rules were law, then I would get to kill all the scumbag pieces of shit who maintain this drug war, because of the danger it puts me in right?

[emsjeep]

Originally Posted by granuale

Sure thing ems. But I get to kill you without consequence if your behavior endagers the public too right? So if you drive with too little sleep, cross the street while on your phone, ride a bike at night without proper illumination?

Why do you want to kill so bad? The drug war is killing so many right now. Lets stop the killing and let people be. If they do something to hurt someone, I think we can agree they need to be punished, but no - you don't get to kill willy nilly. And how long would you last in such a society?

Oh, and if your rules were law, then I would get to kill all the scumbag pieces of shit who maintain this drug war, because of the danger it puts me in right?

Yes, you can come kill me for anything you want. The catch, though, is that you killing me gives my family a right to gather all of our friends, and depending on how stupid your reason was other people might pitch in too, and come kill you, so long as it is all public. Read any Norse Saga ie. Volsung Saga or Beowulf for that matter. I have a cultural and literary basis for my suggestions.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by Keith4001r

My 2 cents- I tell my sons (15 & 16) that Marijuana will hurt you in the end because it's illegal. It will hurt you because of the laws forbidding it. I truly believe there is nothing morally wrong with MaryJane but it's legal status.

Now, if someone willingly breaks any law that puts their LTCF or RKBA in jeopardy, like driving after a few beers, not paying court ordered child support or posession of devil weeds, they do so with the foreknowledge that they stand the chance of losing these rights.

If Pex is the subject of this post, I wish him the best of luck.

Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances.

Keith
Not rollin' the bones yet

Bravo!
I think in the case of PEX, what happened is a case of what in some countries is the boundary of illegal and unlawful.

In some countries, some would argue the picture taken of Phelps although not Illegal was Unlawful.. Did he concent to his privacy being revealed?

Same here, If the PD went to PEX’s home looking for guns.. Found Pot, the search might become what in other countries would be an Unlawful find, meaning the police will cease the substance, but that is about all they can do about seeing they can’t prove it is his (not in his direct possession) and they where not there to find this in the first place.

Now come to the point I believe is important, in my train of thought, robbing a dollar or a million dollar is the same crime.
So this being said, if you robbed a bank of a million dollars or if you robbed a dollar paper from the news stand, you would lose the right to carry a gun right?

When you chose to break the law, how much or little you choose to break it afterwards becomes a point in values.

So now we have some one who broke the law, does not matter that you think it is an innocent law and drinking booze is worst, the line was crossed into a criminal activity.

Based on a crime is a crime, what is to stop this person now from saying Ok now I will do other substances seeing this law was broken and I get little or no repercussions from it? Right so now we move from nickel and dime to dollars, the cost is higher, the payoff is higher, the need for more money is brought up…

A sudden need for a place to put together little pills or powder that make you feel real good… well the law was already broken, why not go get the money at the bank, maybe a passive theft, bad checks, ATM fraud, internet scams, Insurance scams what ever it takes to get the extra cash in hand…

If you let pass the smaller non “violent” crimes as some choose to call them, what is to stop the person to go to higher crimes… Then comes the family… He was such a good boy; he would never have done this if Society was there to protect him… It’s Society’s fault, had they shown him a joint or crime was bad and corrected him, he would never have shot those people… I don’t need to explain this to you, you read it In the papers all the time, Its on the news all day…

If I ask a simple question, “Where is Caylee?” Do you still think “Pot” is such an innocent drug?
There is a mother who claims drugs have nothing to do with the situation she is in. It is every one else’s fault, the system is hurting her, it sucked her into this, and now she is going to fight to prove the system wrong.
Problem is, It’s Mr You and me who is paying to see that she can defend herself, Just like its You and Me paying for what Pex did, Perhaps if he had some respect for the courts of this land, he would not be in the situation he is in now.

Maybe that one joint in his past that some cop confiscated and let him walk, maybe the fact that he could not get a LTCF in PA. Had to get one elsewhere should have been a hint that some thing was amiss. If you go back to the VAT shooting, many had 20/20 vision on that young man. But… only after the fact. Now Pex decides to walk into a court, and with a gun to prove a point… Maybe his overall story tells a short tail of some people who had 20/20 vision before the fact and knew if they allowed him this one indiscretion, some people might die that day just as some people had died at VT.