Drugs + guns = DEATH!

[ErSwnn]

Originally Posted by stinkymcdoober

You are correct, but i feel not quite on target. What makes it illegal is the laws,but what makes it wrong? There are consequences, "higher" consequences some believe. Now, that's a pretty flimsy argument i must admit,but at the same time i also feel that as someone else here said, making something illegal doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. There are consequences to making "wrong" decisions, they may not always be jail time. I'm not preaching, because i'm not religious, just wantto point out that for some people the laws may not be what's stopping them.

Somethings are inherently wrong, our conscience and nature tell us so. But what makes something illegal is it's consequences on society and society's decision to make that action illegal. To be sure, what one culture deems proper another deems abomidable, each culture has developed it's own moral codes abiding by their own view of life or religion. In the U.S. we see things different from Saudi Arabia as to what is acceptable behavior, and deal with misbehavior in a different fashion. Fortunately for us what is deemed illegal is framed within the Constitution. Some place frame within the Koran. But that is what an individual culture or society does. Boy Scouts get their code form one source, outlaw bikers from another. What is wrong within their group is determined from their group.
No doubt, some of our laws are assinine, some are weak and others just downright draconian. But it remains society's choice based on the impact an action causes.

[pacodelahoya]

is it's consequences on society and society's decision

Except that "society"as you call it does not have rights. We are talking about individual rights here, not some collective.

We have a constitutional republic, where the individual reigns supreme( well, used to). If you like a collective society better, then Europe has many to choose from.

Please point out to me, where the Constitution gives the federal govt the power to make drugs illegal?

[ErSwnn]

Originally Posted by pacodelahoya

Except that "society"as you call it does not have rights. We are talking about individual rights here, not some collective.

We have a constitutional republic, where the individual reigns supreme( well, used to). If you like a collective society better, then Europe has many to choose from.

Please point out to me, where the Constitution gives the federal govt the power to make drugs illegal?

So your not a part of a society? You have individial rights within the society. If not then why can't I beat the crap out of someone who grabs up a parking spot I was waiting for? With an "individual right", according to your argument, I can. But the rights of a society to be free of violent reaction to a minor infraction don't count? In a society with nothing but individual rights you have nothing but anarchy. We've been over that one already. Somalia.

The Constitution doesn't expressly contain any laws at all. They are the guidelines to the laws, how they are made and to what extent can control society. Expressly it states how the government is to function and formal rules of governing. Within these bylaw of the Constitution indeed the government has the power to enact laws, in adherence to the Constitution, which ban drugs. Surely there is a lot to debate as to what should or should not be legal, particularly with drugs, a lost war. I do believe we have to change drug laws but at this time, they are illegal Constitutionally. It's been fought, debated and enforced. Even for medical reasons, federally pot is illegal.

[pacodelahoya]

Brother, we are going to have to agree to disagree, I say we have individual rights, then you say that it a societal infraction if you beat an ass over a parking space, which is an infringement on a...wait for it.......individuals rights. Society is only made up ofpeople, society can have no more and no less "rights" than the individual.

Just as the .gov is not supposed to have more power than the.....here it is...PEOPLE.


The founding fathers did not use ambigous and confusing words like society. They used words like people, because that is the plural of person, an individual.

Society is too tenuous ofaword, it means differnet things to different people.

People, person, they are words that have distinct meanings.

[ErSwnn]

Originally Posted by marinakorp

I would prefer decriminalization and allow limits for personal use, and productions (growing) in the home.

I would personally prefer the natural form of pain management than the almost daily regimen of FISTFULLS of advil...which have consequences on the liver and other organs.

Vaporization and ingestion are other forms of administering the drug, that have less impact to the system than traditional smoking methods.

A Few years ago, I was diagnosed with Lymes Dissease... seemed to have gone unchecked for quite sometime. It has destroyed my joints (painful to even stand sometimes... although if I lost some weight that would help some ... but I digress) and a few other critical system processes, arthritis, swelling, eyes, vertigo,etc...and all I can look forward to is a long slow decline (YEA!!!!!)

Now... if our wonderful state (or national govt) would allow me to self medicate (like I do with the poisons in the ADVIL, etc) I would much prefer that route. Does the ADVIL work ... yes. Do alternative therapies work... yes. Should I be allowed to choose my treatment... yes.

Am I a responsible gun owner - yes.
Would I like to have a drinkl or two with the boys on a SAT night (means no advil and a LOT of joint pain) - yes. In these instances... I would prefer to use alternative treatment methods to limit impacts to my organs.

I am not advocating blowing a bone prior to going to work on a daily basis, or prior to going to the range... I would like to include it as a part of additional therapies that should be available to all humans.

I can not, and do not, include it in my current treatment plan. It is a shame.

It's very much a shame and I'm much dismayed that bureauocrats deny the truth of the matter. It really lies with the DEA who control the only legal source of marijuana in the country. They refuse to release any for clinical studies, even though the Congress has approved financing for studies and trials. How do I know? Because I was part of a class action suit that went to the Supreme Court in the 90's to allow medicinal marijuana. We lost. I was on longterm chemotherapy and all evidence pointed to a medicine that relieved the horrible side effects. Underground studies proved the fact. Of course we can't and shouldn't base such an important issue on anything underground but again it points to the truth. Today I remain on maintainance chemo and will forever and honestly don't need such a medicine but I sure wish I could have had it in 1993. I know I would have if my job wasn't as high security as it was. I never did return to that work but I wasn't, and won't, close that door. I liked playing with the nuclear materials.

[ErSwnn]

Originally Posted by pacodelahoya

Brother, we are going to have to agree to disagree, I say we have individual rights, then you say that it a societal infraction if you beat an ass over a parking space, which is an infringement on a...wait for it.......individuals rights. Society is only made up ofpeople, society can have no more and no less "rights" than the individual.

Just as the .gov is not supposed to have more power than the.....here it is...PEOPLE.


The founding fathers did not use ambigous and confusing words like society. They used words like people, because that is the plural of person, an individual.

Society is too tenuous ofaword, it means differnet things to different people.

People, person, they are words that have distinct meanings.

Thank God we can live in a er, um, society...er...peoples...umwhatever that allows us to disagree. I'll go along with that in this case. So now we can leave it in peace and maybe one day duel at 25yds to a target. Winner's choice on who has to eat the funny brownies... I have a coupon for Exlax here and I'm not afraid to use it.

[pacodelahoya]

Sounds like fun!! Lest you get the wrong impression, I am in a profession where I am required to take random pee tests at the beck of da man.

It's all about freedom to me bro.

Please forgive my crappy typing, I am on the laptop and am too lazy to use spell check. For some reason, this computor drops letter and spaces sometimes. I reely ain't ilitteret.

[emsjeep]

I can't help wondering if the ability to turn ones life around and have the violations of personal privacy and the violations of rights to personal property forgiven encourages behavior like robbery or burglary because youths know that have a good chance at being offered another go at it...I mean the concept holds true for higher offences. If a friend had their hands chopped off for lifting a candy bar I bet you all recovered thieves would have thought twice about breaking into someone's house...just a though, because I’m not really sure myself of the answer to this.

[ErSwnn]

Originally Posted by pacodelahoya

Sounds like fun!! Lest you get the wrong impression, I am in a profession where I am required to take random pee tests at the beck of da man.

It's all about freedom to me bro.

Please forgive my crappy typing, I am on the laptop and am too lazy to use spell check. For some reason, this computor drops letter and spaces sometimes. I reely ain't ilitteret.

No, never took you as anything but intelligent, you give good debate. Again, sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me. And no, didn't assume anything other than your view being somewhat counter to my own. Thanks for keeping a cool head when I lost mine. Drugs piss me off from every angle. I still have four more kids to get through this minefield. So far so good, no issues from the girls. I'd be much more in agreement with you if people would just use common sense with the stuff.

[ErSwnn]

[quote=emsjeep;437270]I can't help wondering if the ability to turn ones life around and have the violations of personal privacy and the violations of rights to personal property forgiven encourages behavior like robbery or burglary because youths know that have a good chance at being offered another go at it...I mean the concept holds true for higher offences. If a friend had their hands chopped off for lifting a candy bar I bet you all recovered thieves would have thought twice about breaking into someone's house...just a though, because I’m not really sure myself of the answer to this.[/QUOTE
I knew that as a minor I'd probably not see detention, just probation which is what I got. But I also thought I'd never get caught...a common trait among thieves. And I'm absolutely positively sure that if I saw people without their right hand I'd have never done anything like I did. True rehabilitation comes from within, it can't be forced. It's the mindset that has to change. There are a lot of people who would steal if they knew they wouldn't get caught but otherwise don't. The mindset is still wrong. I truly remorse what I did and will until I die. I don't remorse getting caught, I thank God for it. It put my mind right to understand what I did was wrong on every level and there is absolutely no excuses for it. If my actions had caused me to lose some of my rights I would have taken that as the price I had to pay. As I see it I didn't pay much of a price at all so now for the rest of my life I repay society for that which it didn't extract from me lo those many years ago. I owe it to the people I stole from, society, God, my parents,and myself to continue to atone. 33 years later I still feel deep shame for what I did and sorrow for missing the youthful opportunity to have done something different. I am truly sorry for what I did. I am truly glad I was caught.
The experience does give me better insight to that thinking I did back then. More so it gives me better insight into those who truly are criminals, not the kids I hung with but the ones who sold us drugs, the ones who fenced our loot, the ones who took other kids to new levels of crime. The real criminals. The ones who do this for a living. Their weakminded. They like to think their tough but the real tough guy is the one who gets up at 5am goes off to work, comes home to chores, kids, etc. and gets the work done there and does it again the next day for 40 years and doesn't expect the world to hand him a thing. That's a tough guy.