Military and the .45...

[Mike45]

A few months ago, the U.S. Military said they were going back to the .45 cal sidearm. I have not heard any other reports since then. What are your thoughts? What pistol would you like to see replace the Beretta? Servicemen and women, give us your thoughts, especially if you have experience with the Beretta...thanks...Mike45

[9mmMike]

I am a fan of the .45 but I'd like to see them move to the flat-shooting 10mm. I've not met anyone in the service who likes the Beretta either. I am sure there are some who do but I have not spoken to them.
Most of the guys I spoke to who where in the sandbox are actually Glock, Sig or 1911 fans though I'm pretty sure that the US military is not going to ever buy Glocks.
Obviously I like my 9mm's but for a service pistol I'd vote 10mm first, then .45 ACP.
You asked,
Mike

[ChamberedRound]

I've never served, but I'm very interested in this pistol, and I've been trying to find out as much as I can about it. Most of my information has come from Michael Bane. He's a shooting fanatic who hosts the show "Shooting Gallery" on the Outdoor Channel, and he knows a bunch of people in the industry from Rob Leatham to members of the NRA BoD.

Before I get started, I'm not associated with Michael Bane or the Outdoor Channel personally/professionally. It just happens to be where I've seen the most information about this topic, outside of my own research. Take it FWIW.

For those that are interested, links to Michael Bane's Blog, and his show:
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/
http://www.shootinggallery.tv/

Here's what I've gathered so far:

1. Originally, this pistol was to be called the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol), becuase multiple branches of the military were planning on adpoting it. However, its future is in question because said branches of the military can't seem to agree on what the specs of the pistol should be. It looks like at least SOCOM is going to go forward with it, but whether anyone else (like the Army) does all depends on how the specs are hammered out.

2. One of the few specs that's well known, and all agree on, is that the pistol must be chambered in .45 caliber. Reports from the field in Afghanistan and Iraq indicate that a 9mm pistol doesn't meet the needs of the current tactical situation(s). This doesn't necessarily mean 45ACP, it just means .45 of some kind. It may even be a new cartridge design, depending on how much time and effort the manufacturers want to put into it..

3. All the major manufacturers are planning on submitting something for consideration. "Shooting Gallery" has already aired episodes which show a little (very little) of how companies like Sig and S&W are preparing to submit a pistol; Michael Bane did a tour of the 2 facilities, each in a seperate episode. Supposedly, the new season will also contain episodes which focus on this topic, and possibly tour other manufacturer's facilities as well.

4. All of the manufacturers are looking for a way to differentiate their product, so lot's of neat innovations (new safety types, trigger types, etc.) could come out of this process.

5. Wikipedia has a an entry on this item: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Combat_Pistol

6. I also found this page which seems to contain more specs on the JCP. However, I'm not of the source of this information, or it's reliability:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ground/jcp.htm

7. Again, I can't vouch for the validity of this document, but this seems to contain more specifications:
http://www.amfire.com/php/container....newsPostID=143

Hope this helps everyone. I've been anxiously waiting to see what comes out of this process, and if/when it will be available to the general public.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by 9mmMike

I am a fan of the .45 but I'd like to see them move to the flat-shooting 10mm.

I don't know if the decision-makers considered this or not, but I agree with you from a ballistics standpoint.

The 10mm not only flies flatter, but has much higher velocities than the 40S&W due to being a hotter load. I wonder if the higher velocities would make it effectively "hit" as hard as the 45ACP. If so, it would have the effect of a 45ACP with the benefit of a longer range.

What's it like to shoot 10mm? I've heard recoil is pretty rough.

[9mmMike]

What's it like to shoot 10mm? I've heard recoil is pretty rough.

The only 10mm that I've shot is the Glock 20. This is pretty big gun and it had a Hogue slip-on grip. It was not harsh at all. It would be quite stout in a small/light pistol though. The fellow who owns that gun bought a 21C (.45ACP) with the express purpose of taking it to Iraq with him. The only calibers allowed/approved (that are least likely to raise eyebrows) are the 9mm & .45 ACP.
My buddy shoots in service pistol competitions and he often laments not being able to shoot 10mm.
I have that 21C now. It is a very easy pistol to shoot.
Mike

[aubie515]

I doubt that the US Military will adopt the 10MM due to the fact that the military likes calibers that are available. 223, 308, 9mm, 45, etc etc.

[Joeg52]

If the US Military adopts it, it will be available.

[starblazer]

Originally Posted by 9mmMike

The fellow who owns that gun bought a 21C (.45ACP) with the express purpose of taking it to Iraq with him. The only calibers allowed/approved (that are least likely to raise eyebrows) are the 9mm & .45 ACP.Mike

Curious why he would choose the C model for this task? I understand the caliber choice.

[danp]

Originally Posted by starblazer

Curious why he would choose the C model for this task? I understand the caliber choice.

It stands for 'compensated', but it really means 'ported' (I guess 21P didn't sound as cool). The barrel and slide are cut to direct gasses upwards keeping recoil down.

[starblazer]

Originally Posted by danp

It stands for 'compensated', but it really means 'ported' (I guess 21P didn't sound as cool). The barrel and slide are cut to direct gasses upwards keeping recoil down.

Thanks, but I know what the C stands for. I'm just wondering what the benefit of it would be in a combat situation. I don't see one.