AR-15 for Home defense in Philly

[Scrumpyjack]

You are only authorized the use of enough force to remove the threat. If 1 shot to the shoulder sends the actor to floor crying like a baby and bleeding on your new carpet, then you have removed the threat. If the actor was coming towards you with a pen knife and you shot him from 30' away and empty a 30 rd mag from your mini-gun, you are now a murderer. These are the criminal issues. In most criminal cases involving a home invasion, a law-abiding armed citized who only used enough force to stop the threat (NOT shooting to kill a purse snatcher), justice will prevail.

What GunLawyer001 is trying to get across is that while you may not be criminally charged for homicide or assault(IF the shooting is found justified), you can bet your life savings that the next of kin of the crackhead will win in a wrongful death civil suit. Most jurors will not be knowledgeable in any kind of weaponry. They will only know what they see in the movies and will believe the most exaggerated description they hear in the courtroom. The complaintaints attorneys will present your "assault" rifle, discuss how the countless hours of training you have received should have shown through in your restraint. They will bring "experts" in to testify that your combat trained/self defense trained/mercinary/soldier of fortune wannabe azz should have been able to remove the threat with "LESS THAN LETHAL FORCE">All that must be established by a plaintiff in a civil proceeding is the liability of the defendant and the defendant must only be found liable by a prepoderance of the evidence. I'm not implying that this is what is being said, nor is this what I infer from previous posts, this is simply as viewed from a jury of peers after receiving their only "formal" gun education from the plaintiff's attorneys

"I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by six." Think about....are you truly prepared for all of the consequences that come with pulling that trigger??? In a civil suit, justice will not prevail until the lawmakers eliminate these insane lawsuits. This will not happen since most lawmakers are lawyers and civil cases is the bread and butter of most up and coming attorneys!!

A GOOD "shooting for self-defense" class will not last 4 - 8 hours, it will take atleast 2 days. The first day should be spent on basics, safety and the law. Students must be aware of ALL implications that could (and will) arise after they pull that trigger. Most situations can be defused without drawing your weapon and certainly without pulling the trigger.

BTW...yes, I carry. Yes, I am professionally trained, military and civilian.

[27hand]

Scrumpyjack,

Welcome to the site.

Lotta If's there. I may be able to match that with a few of my own. I'll throw in a couple "perhaps".

IF the BG went down bleeding on your carpet and still had a weapon in his hand, he is still a threat. If it is a firearm, he can still kill you while he is on your carpet crying like a baby. That's a scenario you must observe and make a decision. If he points that gun at you while he's down there,what do you suggest? He is just about helpless there isn't he?

Emptying a 30 round mag was never even an issue here.

If your purse snatcher has a weapon, how do you know his intent?

You seem to imply that all jurors are less than intelligent and can all be swayed by a prosecutors depiction of your choice to stop someone from harming either you or a family member. Perhaps they can make their own decisions based on not only what the prosecuter says but what your counsel and your staff of expert witnesses also says. Perhaps it can be argued that a person trains to be able to assess the situation and make the correct decision about using or not using deadly force.

You seem to suggest that anyone who trains in self defense is a soldier of fortune wannabe? I think a person who trains in this manner just wants to get through this life unmolested by gangsta wannabes and lowlife preying on people who will not or cannot protect themselves.

TonyF said it and a Lawyer i know said it. IF YOU CAN, get to a safe room with family, cellphone, and means to protect yourself. If family members are somewhere in the house, I'm going to go find them. Perhaps training enough will prevent you from shooting a loved one because you have ingrained in your mind to "be sure of your target".

If you have no training, you will not know what to do. It won't just come to you.

I can see this thread degenerating into what ifs and shoulda coulda woulda information and misinformation.

I'll pass. You all do what you think is the right thing. I'll do what I think is best for me.

Later,

27hand

[Scrumpyjack]

Thanks for the welcome 27. I've been lurking for ~6mos and just got compelled to post tonite.

All threat scenarios are "what ifs" until they happen. Just throwing some food for thought out there.

[27hand]

Scrumpyjack,

There's a lot of good info here.

We don't always agree and all have our own reasons.

I do agree with you that one day classes cannot cover the info needed aside from the most basic of firearms handling

By the same token, 2 day classes claiming to teach safety, legal issues, stance,grip,sight picture, pressing through the trigger, reset,follow through,weapons manipulation together with malfunction clearances,presentations, shooting on the move,low light shooting and flashlight usage, house clearing,two man tactics etc, etc. with a 2000 round count are suspect to me.

I am probably a slow learner,but i like to do numerous repetitions of drills and am not too concerned with a massive round count.

I'm not a high speed/low drag kind of guy. That's just me.

Again, welcome,

27hand

[Scrumpyjack]

Roger, Copy on the high speed/low drag.

Not the case here, but I all too often find people confusing home defense with home offense