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  #81 (permalink)  
Old January 4th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

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Originally Posted by Gun View Post
I'm confused. I have to watch more Law and Order!
Yeah, me too. Maybe can find some re-runs of Dog the Bounty Hunter.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old January 4th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

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Originally Posted by Gun View Post
With all due respect, I thought the detectives in the police dept. determined how a homicide investigation proceeded.

... and the DA prosecuted, based on the evidence gathered by those detectives.

I'm confused. I have to watch more Law and Order!
It differs by county... In Montgomery the DA has "County Detectives" that work all of their homicides and other special cases. In Allegheny County the DA only allows PGH PD and the County Police to handle homicides.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old January 4th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

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Originally Posted by MDJschool View Post
It's going to take a paradigm shift, one I believe will have to start with government officials. I think the constabulary is in the prime position for this, being beholden to no elected officials, and having a jurisdiction of not their bailiwick but the state. There are thousands of constable positions in PA, one for each township and ward, and so many of them vacant. It takes 10 valid petitioners/signatures and a hearing to take a vacancy, and for places where there are rarely challengers for the position, 10 (write in) votes (or less?) to be elected.

I imagine that much of the unlawful conduct police undertake against the people are breaches of the peace (as today's understanding has accumulated, anyway). I can only chuckle as I imagine constables swarming around police officers as flash-mob independent oversight committees and how annoyed those officers might be that they have to at once consider their oaths. On the other hand, I can imagine how dangerous that's going to be when the officer thinks he is the be all and end all of the law and another law man demands that he stand down. In any case, constables of boroughs also have enlarged statutory powers of arrest.

Other than in the case of enlarged statutory arrest powers for some of them, constables have and office and the law explicitly behind them which is not so much the case for laypersons, which is why I think they would need to lead the way for change.

(ETA: The above all seemed like a good idea until I just read the following: "Thus, we conclude, given this legislative regulation, that constables possess no common law police or peace officer powers but can only exercise the authority granted by statute." Com. v. Roose, 690 A.2d 268 (Pa.Super. 1997). lol, will have to do more research.)



I'm weary of the breadth of that breach of the peace arrest power. At first I was going to say that the courts have either not commented on it or have limited their discussion to felonies and misdemeanor breaches of the peace. Then I came across Com. v. Dobbins, 594 Pa. 71 (2007) which does repeatedly make mention of "breaches of the peace" without the attendant qualification "misdemeanor" (although I didn't read through Dobbins right now to seek the context.) Whether or not there is some historical common law power to arrest for breach of the peace summary offenses, I don't know, but there is doubt cast on that ability today. "It is black letter law, reiterated and statutorily defined by Pa.R.Cr.P. 51, that a private citizen may not make an arrest for a summary offense." Com. v. Stahl, 442 A.2d 1166 (Pa.Super. 1982).

Also, as to what actually is a breach of the peace, the courts have occasionally treated that a bit broadly. I've come across an annotation (which I'd like to find again...) in WestLaw noting a case that said it was a breach of the peace to transport illegal drugs in a vehicle. I don't really see how that could be, since we'd be approaching the point where few things aren't a breach of the peace.



If you did commit a crime (cognizable under our constitutions, anyway, and subject to arrest) then I guess you'd better hope that the person didn't make note of your conduct on any report or to any person, so that the evidence making the foundation for the arrest dies with him.
The Breach of the Peace thing does have some gray area to it. Each summary and misdemeanor law/charging would have to be qualified to be a BotP via case-law when absent of blatant obvious signs of being an actual breach of the peace. Obviously some misdemeanors wouldn't be a BotP, and some summary would be.

I do remember such summary charges of speeding and illegal passing being considered such via case law. However Sheriffs and their Deputies had to be qualified under the municipal police vehicular enforcement training.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old February 20th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

What about detaining illegal immigrants? Can you call the police if you know an employer is using illegal immigrants? They are breaking the law for even being here.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old February 20th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

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Originally Posted by Militiaman88 View Post
What about detaining illegal immigrants? Can you call the police if you know an employer is using illegal immigrants? They are breaking the law for even being here.

Detaining - No. I don't believe being an illegal immigrant is a felony(6 months for 1st offense, 2yrs for subsequent offenses). And definitely isn't a breach of the peace.


Just report the employer and suspected illegals to the INS. Just be sure of their status because it'd really suck to let slip the dogs of immigration on someone who truly is lawfully here.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old February 20th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

I am sitting here at my computer reading this thread about CITIZENS ARREST and some of the posts. The post's that had in them about how a person could get into trouble for detaining a burglar that had broken into MY OWN HOME! I really want to know if that is fact or opinion.I can hardly believe that I live in a society that would even think that a person would be in the wrong for detaining a prick hoodlum that broke into my home and commited a felony.We,( the people of Pa. ) really need to do everything in our own power to see that the CASTLE DOCTRINE IS PASSED here soon.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old October 16th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

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Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
Sorry to burst your friends bubble, but there is no such thing as a "citizens arrest" in PA.
that what you want us to believe.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old October 16th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

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Originally Posted by SteelCityK9Cop View Post
No.. the District Attorney is the chief LEO in the county.
apparently there is disagreement on that

from http://sheriff.montcopa.org/sheriff/site/default.asp?

Quote:
The Sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer of the County under the Pennsylvania Constitution. While most police work is now done by local and state police, the Sheriff's broad powers authorize her and her deputies to enforce the law.
and from center county

Quote:
The Sheriff is the Highest Ranking Law Enforcement officer in the county. The office of Sheriff is mandated by the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. The Sheriff is an independent elected official with Law Enforcement responsibilities as well as civil and criminal court duties.
but from luzerne countys da web site we get

Quote:
The District Attorney is the chief law enforcement officer of the County . . .
i guess the question comes down to which office is mentioned in the state constitution although it seems that other das believe that they are the chief law enforcement officer in the county. poor deluded lawyers.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old October 16th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

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Originally Posted by PaBimmerGuy View Post
that what you want us to believe.
Steve is somewhat correct. Its technically called a Common Law Arrest.

The people do not have a statutory power of arrest. What power of arrest we have is from tradition, common law, and case law.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old October 16th, 2011
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Default Re: Citizens Arrest

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Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
Steve is somewhat correct. Its technically called a Common Law Arrest.
po-tay-toe - to-mah-toe.
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