What happens if a Sheriff not of my county grants me a LTCF?

[pex]

Some questions on the nature of municipality and the UFA:

§6109. Licenses.
(b) Place of application.-An individual who is 21 years of age or older may apply to a sheriff for a license to carry a firearm concealed on or about his person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth. If the applicant is a resident of this Commonwealth, he shall make appli*cation with the sheriff of the county in which he resides or, if a resident of a city of the first class, with the chief of police of that city.

Let's say someone lives in Montgomery and apply to Blair. 6109 isn't written like a criminal statute.

Is this someone subjectable to any penalty for submitting an application for licensure to this other sheriff? (Ex: is it an offense to apply to another sheriff, where the appropriate penalty would be found in 6119?)

(d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.-The sheriff to whom the application is made shall investigate the applicant's record of criminal convictions, shall investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by impris*onment exceeding one year, shall investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and shall investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) and shall conduct a criminal background, juvenile delin*quency or mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to firearm ownership).



(e) Issuance of license.*

(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:

(i) An individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.

(ii) An individual who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L. 233, No. 64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act.

(iii) An individual convicted of a crime enumerated in section 6105.

(iv) An individual who, within the past ten years, has been adjudicated delinquent for a crime enumerated in section 6105 or for an offense under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act.

(v) An individual who is not of sound mind or who has ever been committed to a mental institution.

(vi) An individual who is addicted to or is an unlawful user of marijuana or a stimulant, depressant or narcotic drug.

(vii) An individual who is a habitual drunkard.

(viii) An individual who is charged with or has been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year except as provided for in section 6123 (relating to waiver of disability or pardons).

(ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. §921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).

(x) An alien who is illegally in the United States.

(xi) An individual who has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions.

(xii) An individual who is a fugitive from justice. This subparagraph does not apply to an individual whose fugitive status is based upon* nonmoving or moving summary offense under Title 75 (relating to vehicles).

*So in original. Probably "a" should be inserted.

(xiii) An individual who is otherwise prohibited from possessing, using, manufacturing, controlling, purchasing, selling or transferring a firearm as provided by section 6105.

(2) (Deleted)

(3) The license shall bear the name, address, date of birth, race, sex, citizenship, Social Security number, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes and signature of the licensee; the signature of the sheriff issuing the license; the reason for issuance; and the period of valida*tion. The sheriff may also require a photograph of the licensee on the license. The original li*cense shall be issued to the applicant. The first copy of the license shall be forwarded to the commissioner within seven days of the date of issue, and a second copy shall be retained by the issuing authority for a period of six years.

Having submitted an application to the foreign sheriff, there is nothing indicating that the sheriff is allowed or made to investigate a county of residency, and no reason in 6109(e)(1) includes "not of appropriate residency".

Does this mean that an application to a foreign sheriff must be rejected, rather than a license denied?

(g) Grant or denial of license.-Upon the receipt of an application for a license to carry a firearm, the sheriff shall, within 45 days, issue or refuse to issue a license on the basis of the in*vestigation under subsection (d) and the accuracy of the information contained in the applica*tion. If the sheriff refuses to issue a license, the sheriff shall notify the applicant in writing of the refusal and the specific reasons. The notice shall be sent by certified mail to the applicant at the address set forth in the application.

Because 6109(g) stipulates that a sheriff must grant based on the investigation which does not establish residency, so long as it is accurate, does this mean that a sheriff has no responsibility in accepting only residents of the county at where he presides?

----

The question we come to, therefore, is anyone really responsible for municpal licensure?

If a foreign sheriff grants a license, is there anything to invalidate it? It may not be revoked but for reasons in 6109(e)(1).

[Brown-Bear]

I would imagine that he/she would not grant you a LTCF as it says right there that you apply to the sheriif in the county in which you live.

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by Brown-Bear

I would imagine that he/she would not grant you a LTCF as it says right there that you apply to the sheriif in the county in which you live.

Yes, but the question posed is what if they did issue it. I know the former Franklin County Sheriff issued a non-resident permit to a MD resident who did not have a license in his home state. This is technically a violation of statute. When the licensee discovered the law on his own and contacted the current Sheriff he was told the license wouldn't be revoked, but don't expect a renewal when it expired.

[pex]

Originally Posted by Brown-Bear

I would imagine that he/she would not grant you a LTCF as it says right there that you apply to the sheriff in the county in which you live.

But it says that the sheriff must grant a license as long as you submitted an accurate application and cannot be precluded from licensure based on reasons not in 6109(e)(1), none of which includes 'residency'.

As I have understood in passing, there are differing legal ramifications to rejection of an application as opposed to a refusal-to-grant/denial of license. They may not matter in practicality based on the nature of how the law (normally) applies. ('final judgement' for example)

I would suggest that a foreign sheriff does not exactly have a strong standing to deny a license based on residency due to 6109(g) [ -> 6109(d) -> 6109(e)(1)].

I am not exactly sure how a sheriff would plug in 6109(b) to deny licensure. I posit again that 6109(b) is a responsibility of the applicant and not the receiving sheriff. I see that you may construe that a sheriff may just decide it's not his responsibility to bother, but I would not say that 6109(b) is a preclusion of his ability to act.

We may be missing a piece of legal glue, which is quite possible. I hope a lawyer jumps in to add it, if that is the case.

[HiredGoon]

pex...my head is exploding, man

[mpi]

i was issued a ltcf by erie county because they noted that my permit had expired while i was working a case up there and needed to access records in the courthouse. they refused to give me my weapon back when leaving the courthouse. they insisted i go through the process and get a card even though their processing LT wasn't present.

shortly after i got back to pgh i was called by the erie county sher dept guys who made me jump through the hoops and he insisted i mail back the permit card RIGHT NOW. he was in a real tizzy to get it back immediately and tried to strong arm me into driving it back up that day. I told him he could come and get it, or i could mail it back. the other alternative i offered was to drop it off the next time i worked the case in erie.

he finally relented when he realized that i wasn't gonna be jerked off. i mailed it.

[Brown-Bear]

Alright so the Q was "what if" huh. Ihave no idea really but I guess he/she may just let you have it but not renew upon expiration, buts thats just a guess.

Dave

[pex]

The following question would be germane to the larger question of "Who are the most pro-gun and proactive sheriffs in PA"?

PA has 67 counties. Because you don't apply to the Philly sheriff for a license, make that 66.

Because Denny Nau isn't going to live forever (only got 55% of the vote in 2007, to a second place 45%) so we can't rely on Centre county to be a sole provider of non-resident permits, and because people have significant trouble getting their licenses in some municipalities (like Philadelphia), and because the law doesn't seem (so far) to prevent a foreign sheriff from licensing an applicant, let us compile this list. A person should get the best chances possible to get a permit in a may issue state until the law is rectified.

Please list any incidents with any sheriff that may explain whether he is pro-gun/proactive or not, or any situation involving licensing by a foreign sheriff, or receipt of a non-resident person from someone-not-Denny-Nau, or a revocation. Hopefully we can discern a trend.

[pex]

For convenience, I am populating a list of sheriffs here.

http://www.pasheriffs.org/sheriff-info/county/

Adams - James Muller
Allegheny - William P. Mullen
Armstrong - Larry Crawford
Beaver - George David
...TBC...

[Statkowski]

Back to the original question.

License issued in error? Doesn't seem to be any statutory authority to revoke it (which would look bad on your record even though it's not your fault), nor any means to rescind it.

As with the Maryland incident, I think everyone concerned would just let it die a slow death and make believe it didn't exist.