First ever negative encouter -Robinson Twp

[jofreder]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

It does not require "mall management" to ask you to leave if the officers there are working in or for the mall. An example would be the Wyoming Valley Mall in Wilkes-Barre Twp. The WBTWP PD has officers assigned to the mall, think of them as armed mall security. They have the power and authority to ask you to leave.

Those officers or even unarmed mall security are acting as agents of the mall.

I agree with you but was wondering, wouldn't their authority be dictated by what the Contract is between the Mall and the PD.

[slinkwc2k]

What a state of affairs we are in. Had you been OC'ing down the street, there probably wouldn't have been any issue. Problems come in at places like malls, where they make up their own constitution, if you will, about what types of weapons (and I use that word loosely) that they will allow on their premesis. So now for every mall I enter, do I first need to stop and obtain a pamphlet regarding what "weapons" are prohibited? How likely am I to do that?

I think you handled yourself very well considering the circumstances. In many cases, for me, I just carry concealed. My wife and I both have permits to do so, and I exercise that right. And it is a RIGHT not a privlidge. Its just what works for me; I get to carry and at the same time avoid all potential BS from liberals trying to compromise my rights as a citizen.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by slinkwc2k

What a state of affairs we are in. Had you been OC'ing down the street, there probably wouldn't have been any issue. Problems come in at places like malls, where they make up their own constitution, if you will, about what types of weapons (and I use that word loosely) that they will allow on their premesis. So now for every mall I enter, do I first need to stop and obtain a pamphlet regarding what "weapons" are prohibited? How likely am I to do that?

I think you handled yourself very well considering the circumstances. In many cases, for me, I just carry concealed. My wife and I both have permits to do so, and I exercise that right. And it is a RIGHT not a privlidge. Its just what works for me; I get to carry and at the same time avoid all potential BS from liberals trying to compromise my rights as a citizen.

That's what it is all about, whatever works for you.
+22

[Montanya]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

It does not require "mall management" to ask you to leave if the officers there are working in or for the mall. An example would be the Wyoming Valley Mall in Wilkes-Barre Twp. The WBTWP PD has officers assigned to the mall, think of them as armed mall security. They have the power and authority to ask you to leave.

Those officers or even unarmed mall security are acting as agents of the mall.

Question, if they are moonlighting working for the mall, are they permitted to be in uniform, carrying duty weapons and gear? Just curious since my tax dollars go to pay for that stuff if they can use it to then go make extra cash that seems odd. Also, if they are working for the mall, they can certainly ask me to leave, just like security can, but they still don't have rights to see my papers etc. So if they are calling in my ID/LTCF in to dispatch on off duty moonlighting , is that permitted? They are then using public paid resources like the dispatch and radio system while off-duty? Just curious about what they can do while they are not on the municipal payroll and what official resources they are able to use at that time.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by Montanya

Question, if they are moonlighting working for the mall, are they permitted to be in uniform, carrying duty weapons and gear? Just curious since my tax dollars go to pay for that stuff if they can use it to then go make extra cash that seems odd. Also, if they are working for the mall, they can certainly ask me to leave, just like security can, but they still don't have rights to see my papers etc. So if they are calling in my ID/LTCF in to dispatch on off duty moonlighting , is that permitted? They are then using public paid resources like the dispatch and radio system while off-duty? Just curious about what they can do while they are not on the municipal payroll and what official resources they are able to use at that time.

I believe he said they were probably assigned to the mall, on duty time.

[Montanya]

Originally Posted by headcase

I believe he said they were probably assigned to the mall, on duty time.

So my tax dollars pay for private security now? lol I can't see the rationale of having public servants acting as security guards on taxpayer time. Can I pay them to hang out in front of my apartment building in case the neigbors get loud?

[Steve in PA]

The mall pays for the officers to be there, not your tax dollars.

Its just like our annual firemans bazaar which I worked tonight. The volunteer fire company will pay me for working the bazaar, providing security, keeping the peace, watching for drunks, etc.

The same principle would apply to the officers working at the mall. The officers have a sub-station in the mall, but the officers assigned to the mall do not answer calls outside the mall property.

[paul]

So it's a public area, with real honest to goodness police stationed there, where the bill of rights doesn't really apply? I mean, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that if you own a place and take full advantage of the fact that you can kick someone out for practicing constitutionally protected rights, but you still play up the alleged "public" nature of the place to the point that you are issued public officials to work at your private business, well that smells kind of rotten. The fact that you bribe sorry I meant pay the department to for exclusive rights to these public officials doesn't exactly reassure me of the rectitude of the process.

I don't have any problem with cops working security part time, that's capitalism for you. But the fact that malls nowadays blur lines between the public and private in ways so convenient for themselves says troubling things about the future.

[Statkowski]

So my tax dollars pay for private security now? lol I can't see the rationale of having public servants acting as security guards on taxpayer time. Can I pay them to hang out in front of my apartment building in case the neigbors get loud?

The mall is paying to have police officers stationed inside the mall. I'd be more than willing to wager that what they are paying exceeds what the police department is spending to have them there, so it's a profitable arrangement for the police department and keeps taxes lower. As a public gathering place, it's not too much different from patrolling a park. I'm sure the RTPD would be more than willing to station a full-time officer on the street in front of your apartment building provided you were willing to pay for it.

[Brown-Bear]

Originally Posted by Statkowski

The mall is paying to have police officers stationed inside the mall. I'd be more than willing to wager that what they are paying exceeds what the police department is spending to have them there, so it's a profitable arrangement for the police department and keeps taxes lower. As a public gathering place, it's not too much different from patrolling a park. I'm sure the RTPD would be more than willing to station a full-time officer on the street in front of your apartment building provided you were willing to pay for it.

You beat to it. My old man used to be an LEO and worked as security at the athletic complex, and thet PD was paid a hefty sum, to have 2 LEO's on scene.

OP. Sounds like you did okay. Nothing wrong with giving them your ID. You made your position known, and officer 1 persisted. I guess you could have gone the extra step and asked if you were being detained 1st, then given over your ID. But I would have most likely followed your path to avoid any real pains in the a$$ that would have resulted. Good job on pointing them to the sites as well the Dickson City incident. Hopefully they will do thier own researcha nd get some education.


Dave