Carrier illegally detained and falsely charged in Pittsburgh

[Emptymag]

I missed this one.

I'll be watching this as well. I'd certainly be interested in attending a council meeting to show support if it gets that far.

The way I see it, these issues need to be addressed, and those gun owners involved need to be supported by all of us, whether we OC or not.(Unless, of course, the OCer involved was being an ass or something)

These kinds of behaviors and bogus charges can just as easily be applied to someone who CCs. Perhaps your cover garment rides up... there's nothing to say that a LEO of this type could not enforce his "opinion" of the law upon you. Enforcing the law is one thing, but as a law enforcement officer, enforcing your personal version of the law is not permissible, even if the majority believes as you do.

[lildobe]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

But he refused to show it (a good thing in this instance).

So for their purposes he didn't have one.

Good point. And I do agree that it's a good thing that he refused to show it.

Good point, but I'm with gnbrotz in that the OC is part of the specifics of the encounter. It should be pointed out. But then, as you say, the ordinance should be the "central" focus.

I think with careful wording both concerns can be addressed.

Well, let's see what we can come up with. As a city resident, I'll be able to get up and speak at the meeting sooner then others, and I welcome any of the other City residents here to join me.

I'm going to start writing tonight, though it would be helpful if the person involved could post a few more details - or if he wants to meet with me, that'd be fine too.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by pirateron

Not really sure what your occupation is, but I know that if I just start making up policies, or don't know policies, at my workplace, it won't be my workplace for long. LE's job is to ENFORCE THE LAW, to do so, they must KNOW THE LAW. Ignorance is no excuse, ie., try fighting a speeding ticket by saying, "I didn't know the speed limit."

Back up can be where knowledge comes from, not just to to make sure you have more angles than the person in question. Sometimes it takes a person with more knowledge to step up and assert the truth. Out of 10 LEO's, not a one of them knew the law???? Definitely a sad commentary on the state of our LE departments when 10 officers are all ignorant to the law.

Rome wasn't built in a day, however, OC laws are not new. It isn't like PA just enacted a law supporting ones right to OC. This should be common knowledge to anyone sworn to uphold the law. Not so to the soccer mom or the PETA activist perhaps, but to a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER? Again, to uphold the law, the law must be known. Hell, its right there in the job title. It seems like we just hand out badges to people and say, "OK, you have the authority to enforce our laws, learn 'em as you go along." This is a scary, dangerous thought.

Just to clarify something you seem to believe from this post, there is no OC law. The only mention of it is to say you need a LTCF to do so in Philadelphia. It is perfectly legal, because there is no law prohibiting it. It has been stated multiple times in caselaw that OC is legal, but there is no law.

[pirateron]

Originally Posted by headcase

Just to clarify something you seem to believe from this post, there is no OC law. The only mention of it is to say you need a LTCF to do so in Philadelphia. It is perfectly legal, because there is no law prohibiting it. It has been stated multiple times in caselaw that OC is legal, but there is no law.

Thank you, sir.. I stand now with more knowledge, thanks for the back-up.

Even more to back up my claim, no law, no need for the LEO's to make one up....

[Jailkeeper]

I find this thread interesting, as I usually do on PAFOA. And like everyone else, I have a thought or two...

First, I have several friends who work in LE, and have discussed OC with them, explaining that it is totally legal. I have heard such responses as "Not while I'M around!". Some came from part-time LEO's. Some from full-time.

Second, look at the new Bedford County Sheriff's comments on this website. http://www.pafoa.org/forum/bedford-9...candidate.html

"You would probably be checked out here. Society has it engrained into their mind a person with gun=being shot. Society as it stands today, with the notable shootings being covered, demands it. I have no problem with open carry used with common sense."

And he wasn't even elected yet!?!

Later in the thread he made the comment... "Election is around the corner. I would appreciate your vote!! I hope all that can will cast a vote regardless of party. It's your right ,use it."?

I know there is peer pressure involved, along with proper understanding of "back-up", along with the inherent risk of the job and how it must take its toll on an LEO.

I also believe ego & arrogance come in to play more often than necessary.

In Reich's comments above (left on this website), who determines "common sense"? He later asks people to vote, and says "It's your right, use it".

I do not live in Bedford County. I do not know Reich. But the need for education is very apparent. In case you are wondering, Reich won the election and is the new Sheriff in Bedford County.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by pirateron

Thank you, sir.. I stand now with more knowledge, thanks for the back-up.

Even more to back up my claim, no law, no need for the LEO's to make one up....

LOL.

Gotta give you that one.

[Jailkeeper]

Originally Posted by headcase

Just to clarify something you seem to believe from this post, there is no OC law. The only mention of it is to say you need a LTCF to do so in Philadelphia. It is perfectly legal, because there is no law prohibiting it. It has been stated multiple times in caselaw that OC is legal, but there is no law.

+1 (10 char)

Never mind, gotta' spread the love first!

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Jailkeeper

First, I have several friends who work in LE, and have discussed OC with them, explaining that it is totally legal. I have heard such responses as "Not while I'M around!".

Please refer them here:
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...tml#post329161

[Mtbkski]

I think PA is going to be a leader in the OC world if this keeps up. Give em heck and keep us posted.

[pirateron]

Originally Posted by TonyF

I'm not LE but the thing is, cops are people too and have character flaws just like you and I and everyone else.

Originally Posted by TonyF

Which is why some cops also begin to engage in abusive behavior towards their spouses and the divorce rate among LE is so high.

Certain aspects of their job are indeed self-destructive which is why I have allot of sympathy for them.

I'm not justifying that kind of behavior but dealing with the constant risk of death on a daily basis and coming into constant contact with the dregs of society has to wear on you.

Unfortunately, it's one of those things where you oftentimes don't realize you're actually behaving that way because it creeps up on you over the years.

Originally Posted by TonyF

You just don't get it (e.g. the LE experience).

By your own admission, you don't get the LE experience either.

I am not interested in a debate regarding the necessity of LE (I do not believe in Anarchy), the level of difficulty in their jobs or the respect that most LEO's deserve. My point was simply that for a calm person enjoying (as best he can at McD's) a burger, not breaking ANY laws, to suddenly be surrounded by 10 LEO's, none of which know or understand the fact that no laws were being broken, is simply ridiculous. I mean, 10, TEN, officers there and not a one had a clue. First, KNOW YOUR JOB.. Second, 9 additional officers for BACK-UP, what, were they scared he was gonna throw a pickle at them? There wasn't anything else happening in Oakland at 3 in the morning?

Please, If you don't know your job, you're incompetent, if you are in LE, and you are incompetent, then you are dangerous and potentially lethel.

I never intended to imply that I "get the LE experience" I chose a different profession because I have no desire to "get the LE experience." These officers obviously DID choose the LE experience, they CHOSE that life, no one forced them into being LEO's. All I ask is that they perform their chosen duties correctly. If it is too much for them, GET OUT.. Don't endanger others, innocent people because dealing with the dregs of society is wearing on them. They still have a job to do. I do not feel as though it is asking too much for those entrusted with public safety to be right.