yet another legal question...

[paul]

for all of you law talkers, I understand pretty well the defiant trespass thing, but if someone asks you to leave a premises does that constitute a permanent bar to reentry? I mean, not that you would want to, but if you OCed and were asked to leave because of it, would you be legally able to return a week later not OCing?

[GunLawyer001]

Depends on what they said and how they said it.

First, they'd have to document who you were, not just get a description and figure it's the same guy a week later.

Second, they have to communicate to you clearly and unambiguously that you were never to return. A certified letter would be good.

The statute probably has some elements that I'm too lazy to review right now, but if they get your ID and serve you written notice that you are never to return, then they have a good case. If they say "hey, you, take that weapon out of here" then they don't have such a good case if you return later without the weapon.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by paul

for all of you law talkers, I understand pretty well the defiant trespass thing, but if someone asks you to leave a premises does that constitute a permanent bar to reentry? I mean, not that you would want to, but if you OCed and were asked to leave because of it, would you be legally able to return a week later not OCing?

Good question.

Its possible either way depending on how the tenant/owner words things. If they say "please leave", it kind leaves things permanent as if they said "please leave and never come back" since they didn't say when you could come back.

I imagine the nature of the property would have some bearing too. With properties not open to the public - I'd lean towards it meaning to never come back.

[knight0334]

dang... the Gunlawyer beat me to it.

[paul]

thanks, that's pretty much what common sense was telling me, but I gather common sense has never been legally codified.

[larrymeyer]

[quote=GunLawyer001;325523]Depends on what they said and how they said it.

First, they'd have to document who you were, not just get a description and figure it's the same guy a week later.

Second, they have to communicate to you clearly and unambiguously that you were never to return. A certified letter would be good.

The statute probably has some elements that I'm too lazy to review right now, but if they get your ID and serve you written notice that you are never to return, then they have a good case. If they say "hey, you, take that weapon out of here" then they don't have such a good case if you return later without the weapon.[/QUOTE]

IANAL But I agree they should have to state the reason your being ask to leave. If its because you OC or CC and you put the gun in the car I would assume you could go right back into the store

[knighthawk06699]

Yes but if they ask me to lock up my gun, I am going to take my gun and my business else where. If my gun is not welcomed, then guess what neither is my money.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by knighthawk06699

Yes but if they ask me to lock up my gun, I am going to take my gun and my business else where. If my gun is not welcomed, then guess what neither is my money.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here, let me ask you this:

Assume that you run a restaurant or an auto parts shop, something generic without any political agenda. You post a "NO FERRETS" sign, and a couple of months later someone walks in, hands you a card that says that if their ferret isn't welcome here, then they will shop at your competitor's store, and all of their ferret-loving pals will do the same.

How worried are you?

[knighthawk06699]

Not hardly at all because Ferrets unlike guns are dangerous!!!! They are sneaky they bite and they smell bad, wait that is the exact same description as my ex wife. Hmmm...

No but seriously, if I am the store owner I am not all that worried. However I will not shop there out of principal. But know this I am gonna convince as many people as I can to come with me. What kind of company denies a person the basic right to defend them selves. Who knows one day my gun could save your business or one of your employees.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by knighthawk06699

Not hardly at all because Ferrets unlike guns are dangerous!!!! They are sneaky they bite and they smell bad, wait that is the exact same description as my ex wife. Hmmm...

No but seriously, if I am the store owner I am not all that worried. However I will not shop there out of principal. But know this I am gonna convince as many people as I can to come with me. What kind of company denies a person the basic right to defend them selves. Who knows one day my gun could save your business or one of your employees.

If I ran a business that had cash on the premises and was open to the public, I'd sure want some armed good guys around.

But most businessmen follow the safe harbor approach of doing whatever will keep them blameless when things go sideways.

Having your employees carry guns, and allowing every mall ninja to bring his gun in while shopping (in addition to all of the responsible citizens who could carry a gun for 100 years without a problem), can backfire on you when one of your authorized armed folks shoots an old lady for taking that second free sample, or shoots a customer while aiming at a robber. Allowing guns makes you responsible for their misuse.

But banning all guns is a safe play, it's the safe harbor. When the armed robbers come in and herd the unarmed customers and unarmed staff into the back room where they execute all of the witnesses, it's an unpreventable tragedy that nobody could have foreseen. Nobody gets fired for banning guns, even when it causes people to die, because it's all the fault of those intervening third parties.

Gutless businessmen choose the "safe" approach that will keep them safe, even if it risks the lives of others.