Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default whats with the short barrel?

    This isnt intended to be sarcastic. I honestly want to know.

    What is with some folks desire to have the shortest barrels possible?

    For civilians that are only using their rifles at the range, seems to me that
    a short barrel has only negative effects on velocity and accuracy and since you arent hauling it through the jungle
    I cant imagine weight is an issue.

    If you aren't clearing rooms, houses, and bunkers in the military,SWAT, or other
    law enforcement agency, why would you want a short barrel on your AR?
    Last edited by skyjerk; June 2nd, 2008 at 09:49 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: whats with the short barrel?

    same thing as with AK's... they are "cool" and "illegal" so people want them...
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: whats with the short barrel?

    For many out there, an AR-15 is a multi-use weapon. It can't be used for hunting in PA (I don't believe), but it's fun at the range and can also double as a home defense weapon. And while we can argue whether or not ARs should be used for home defense, the fact is there are people that use them for such purpose. In a home defense application, a shorter barrel is easier to maneuver, get around corners, etc.

    I can't speak for anyone but myself, and when I bought an AR, I wanted something that would be fun at the range and practical for home defense or a SHTF scenario for two reasons:

    1. I like weapons that can function in multiple roles
    2. I'm on a budget, and can't afford to buy a gun for every single specific use I can think of, so see #1.

    In my opinion, an AR carbine fits that bill pretty well. I wasn't willing to sacrifice practicality in a home defense or CQB situation for the ability to plink at a target 400yds away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seventy4Blazer View Post
    same thing as with AK's... they are "cool" and "illegal" so people want them...
    Let's be very clear on this, in Pennsylvania a standard AR carbine with a 16" barrel is COMPLETELY LEGAL and can be purchased without any ATF regulatory procedures to follow. Further, in PA ANY semiautomatic rifle with a barrel length of at least 16" is completely legal to own unregulated.
    Last edited by ChamberedRound; June 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 AM.
    "Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
    -Charlton Heston

    "[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    -James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.

    "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
    -John Quincy Adams

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
    -Thomas Jefferson

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: whats with the short barrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by skyjerk View Post
    This isnt intended to be sarcastic. I honestly want to know.

    What is with some folks desire to have the shortest barrels possible?

    For civilians that are only using their rifles at the range, seems to me that
    a short barrel has only negative effects on velocity and accuracy and since you arent hauling it through the jungle
    I cant imagine weight is an issue.

    If you aren't clearing rooms, houses, and bunkers in the military,SWAT, or other
    law enforcement agency, why would you want a short barrel on your AR?

    Why drive around in a big suv when gas is $4 / gal. Why own a jet ski / boat--they just waste gas too. Why buy a 4 bed room house when you only need 2. Why run your AC at 68 when 75 might be good enough. On and on and on.

    Because i / we can. I don;t think there needs to be any more discussion about it . Just sayin.
    Last edited by Guns4Fun; June 2nd, 2008 at 12:45 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: whats with the short barrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seventy4Blazer View Post
    same thing as with AK's... they are "cool" and "illegal" so people want them...
    Quote Originally Posted by ChamberedRound View Post
    Let's be very clear on this, in Pennsylvania a standard AR carbine with a 16" barrel is COMPLETELY LEGAL and can be purchased without any ATF regulatory procedures to follow. Further, in PA ANY semiautomatic rifle with a barrel length of at least 16" is completely legal to own unregulated.
    I'm pretty sure he knows that. I took the "'s a symbol of sarcasm, but I guess I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

    Dave
    Last edited by ChamberedRound; June 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: whats with the short barrel?

    My answer: Because I want it, since when does a persons hobby need to be "practical"? I'd also check your sources on short barrels being less accurate.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: whats with the short barrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brown-Bear View Post
    I'm pretty sure he knows that. I took the "'s a symbol of sarcasm, but I guess I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

    Dave
    Fair enough, but this is a public forum which gets a lot of attention. While the sarcasm might be recognized by those who are familiar with PA firearms law, as a moderator on the site I have to assume that there are just as many readers (or more) who are new to the firearms world and coming here looking for accurate information. When it comes to topics of law in PA, we have a responsibility to make sure that the information provided is clear and understandable to the uninitiated.
    "Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
    -Charlton Heston

    "[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    -James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.

    "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
    -John Quincy Adams

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Μολών λαβέ!
    -King Leonidas

  8. #8
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    Default Re: whats with the short barrel?

    I'm with Guns4Fun. If you're willing to deal with the paperwork and the tax stamp, "Because I can" is all the reason anyone needs, and "Because I wanted one" is the absolute best reason of all.

    I'm sure I've posted this before, but short barrells do not have an adverse effect on accuracy / consistency. In many cases, with all else being equal, a shorter barrel is more accurate due to it being relatively more stiff, and having more consistent harmonics and less barrel whip. Barrel quality, ammunition quality, and using the appropriate rifling rate for the bullet you are using are what determine intrinsic accuracy. Longer barrels give you more velocity (to a point) but do not give you more accuracy/consistency minus the above mentioned factors.
    PREPARE FOR BATTLE

  9. #9
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    Default Re: whats with the short barrel?

    Quote Originally Posted by skyjerk View Post
    This isnt intended to be sarcastic. I honestly want to know.

    What is with some folks desire to have the shortest barrels possible?

    For civilians that are only using their rifles at the range, seems to me that
    a short barrel has only negative effects on velocity and accuracy and since you arent hauling it through the jungle
    I cant imagine weight is an issue.

    If you aren't clearing rooms, houses, and bunkers in the military,SWAT, or other
    law enforcement agency, why would you want a short barrel on your AR?
    Velocity losses from shorter barrels with standard cartridges is rather low per inch of lesser barrel. Maybe 10-40fps per inch less. Length of barrel really only helps for accuracy when you are using open sights where you'd need a long sight radius.

    If you're using a scope - barrel length is rather moot since the scope is usually attached to the receiver or just forward of the receiver in a "scout" position. The sight radius of the scoped rifles is within the dimensions of the scope itself. ...so barrel length would play no part other than a slightly less velocity to compensate for.

    If you're gonna use a rifle in an urban environment, IE: brush hunting, home or homeland defense - a shorter barrel is much more manageable in even slightly confined quarters, let alone a upstairs hallway.

    Very few non-magnum rifle cartridges take advantage of longer barrels proportionately. 22-24" barrels with typical hunting rounds is about the sweet spot, but an 18" barrel usually only has a loss of 100-200fps versus the 22/24" barrels. ...not enough for any critter to notice since there is only 2 levels of dead - dead and undead(zombie).

    Also, with short barrels comes lighter weight(generally). Packing around another 1-2lbs just for 100fps isn't worth it at times.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: whats with the short barrel?

    why do you like a red car over blue?
    A sports car over a truck.

    Why have a car that goes over 65mph, thats just impractical, right?

    I do it cuz its fun, its legal, and it PISSES OFF the FUDDS and whingeing little shits who just can't let other folks have some fun without trying to rain on thier parade.

    it's generally also something that the LE and Gov't doesn't really want you to have, so i do it as a big F*** YOU to them.

    I usually only get noise about my NFA items from the 20 shots a year FUDDs, or the 2 shot an hour blackpowder fuzzies at the range.

    I consider myself a fairly friendly guy, and am pretty much willing to let anybody shoot my stuff at the range, and willing to offer advice and correction on gun problems, but i don't respond well to ignorance, fools, and Fudds who like to sidle up to me and tell my my stuff is "illegal".

    if everything had to be practical and serve some incredibly useful purpose, life would suck.

    also, as a note, short barrels are usually more accurate due to stiffness and fewer harmonics issues, the 11.5" barrel upper on my SBR is exceptionally accurate.

    they are also very handy in tight quarters, like hallways, stairwells, and vehicles.
    Last edited by JayBell; June 2nd, 2008 at 01:41 PM.
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