Do the BATF troll the web site ?

[CZ40P]

I really am beginning to wonder if the BATF or some other bunch of goons like the Bloomberg posse are trolling this website. Have you noticed, there are folks who sign up just to score a firearm in the classifieds.

I put a few guns in the classifieds and listed my phone number. EVERY single gun had someone call and ask about coming right up to buy the gun form some place like Delaware. Can there be that many stupid people in the world.

What has the hairs on the back of my neck standing up is the fact that they never ask me to break the law, but seem to be baiting me to say something incriminating. I always tell them to buzz off, no sale.

My new rule, I look at all of their posts before I answer.

Maybe I am just too paranoid, but my neck hairs are usually right.

Does this happen to anyone else?

[Warsaw Pact]

This is a common concern on the other forums I read. Some guys go so far as to never list what guns they own or post pics... because they are sure the ATF has a team of cyber-spies watching everyone and keeping a detailed log.

On a side note, I would argue if you are ever in a self-defense shooting (home invasion, etc) and you are under investigation for it (grand jury), if the DA found out you were active on a forum... they would not hesitate to get a list of every post you've made. And let's say you were feeling brave on night on a post two years ago saying you are going to "shoot first and ask questions later" (during a break-in or robbery), sadly it could be used (out of context) to try to make you look bad in court.

So just a head's up. I don't think we should be paranoid and not express ourselves, just be wary of what you write.

[JoeWilliams]

They would be remiss if they did not.

[PennsyPlinker]

Originally Posted by CZ40P

I really am beginning to wonder if the BATF or some other bunch of goons like the Bloomberg posse are trolling this website....

Does this happen to anyone else?

The answer is:


YES


A little while ago I advertised a Taurus PT145 Mil Pro for sale. The first guy to respond told me he wanted it, and asked me where and when I wanted to make the exchange. I gave him my name and number, and told him where several gun shops were where we could make the deal. All of a sudden he stopped responding. When I asked if he was still interested, the answer was as follows:

"Actually, my boss asked me to check on these websites to make sure that listings and sales are legal."

He went on to give me advice on how to make my posts so they would not be construed as offers to do something illegal, and told me to "be careful" out there. How nice. He was concerned for my safety. He signed his reply LT. His alleged location matches up with a local PSP barracks.

Now, maybe the guy was just shining me on, and wanted to back out of the deal by telling me he was a cop checking on us peasants to make sure we were toeing the line, but in either case he represented himself as someone connected with the Law, and once he discovered that I was not going to sell a handgun any other way than through a dealer, he lost interest in me. I reported the whole thing to Dan, along with copies of the exchange, but I don't know what ever came of it. I have never seen the guy post again, but I haven't been watching for him either.

I just assume the cops are watching us. More accurately, I assume the Feds are watching us. We are the enemy. We are those people who are gumming up the works in a well oiled machine by doing nasty things like asserting our freedoms, carrying the means of resistance, etc. I do not worry about what I say, other than I do not say or write things that are intentionally illegal, since I would not do those things anyway. But dissension with the government is a time honored tradition in this country, especially when it is in line with the intent of the Constitution. It is not always safe, but that is not going to stop me from saying or writing what I think.

[Chevmeister]

Im sure they do, just conduct yourself as normal. If you dont break the law you have nothing to worry about. If you do, i wouldnt want you to be part of a firearms forum anyway. As far as people from out of state askign to buy a firearm, tell them you they can buy it but it has to go through an ffl since their out of state, if they persist, get their name phone # and address, and call the batf yourself. Some things arent worth worring about.

[danp]

It is always a possibility, but as Chev said: Simply follow the law and there shouldn't be any problems.

[PennsyPlinker]

Originally Posted by Chevmeister

Im sure they do, just conduct yourself as normal. If you dont break the law you have nothing to worry about.

This is the crux of the matter. It isn't so much that a person might want to break the law, it is a LEO enticing them to break it so they can make a bust. We are responsible for knowing the law, but there is plenty of evidence to show that the cops don't know it any better than we do, and some a lot less. And some of those who know it very well are all too ready to help someone step over the line. But there are plenty of genuine criminals out and about that need catching, and instead of trying to entrap people on internet forums, they would do well to attend to those real bad guys.

[KeithPA]

Originally Posted by Chevmeister

Im sure they do, just conduct yourself as normal. If you dont break the law you have nothing to worry about.

Now that's a good one

someone had a little to much to drink for lunch

[JayBell]

Its a known fact that they do.

On the other site I have been modding on for the last 10 years (su.bguns.com), various Fed and local agencies DO examine the boards for illegal items, but very few reports of LEO actually trying a sting.

A few of the agencies that have actually contacted ME over stuff:
BATFE
FBI
US Secret Service
Various State Police agencies.

in all cases, everything gets referred to the website owner.

on another note, in the case where we've turned logging on for 24hrs, we see traffic from both LE Agencies, and a TON of Fed Agencies.

stuff like:
JPL
US Navy/Army/USMC/AF and other .mil
FAA
National Observatory
Smithsonian
Lawrence Livermore
GAO
etc


remember, theres just as many folks in gov't service who are gunowners, as there are regular job folks.

as Dan says, kep it legal, and post clear terms in the ads.
Don't fall victim to people offering more cash for an under the table type meet, or something across state lines.

[JoeWilliams]

Originally Posted by PennsyPlinker

snip
But there are plenty of genuine criminals out and about that need catching, and instead of trying to entrap people on internet forums, they would do well to attend to those real bad guys.

From the LE perspective, though, it's kind of hard to tell who the bad guys are, and who the good guys are. Just can't get those bad guys to wear their signs, darn it!! So, nothing for it but to go fishing, and see if you can catch yourself a bad guy.