Amtrak Police Detained Me

[jon'76]

So I was detained on suspicion of illegally transporting an AK-47 Assault Rifle to NJ. As I was about to get on the train a dog hit on my bag which had a ruger 10/22 carbine in it which was recently fired. (I love it ) So then I was detained and I initially told them the basics and then clammed up, but as I found out that the issue was an AKM and not my 10/22 I realized that I'd be better off cooperating with them. So I had a nice conversation with the officer baby sitting me on guns, gun laws, knife/mace/asp law, amtrak police's standing, their tactical response team (carry m1 carbines), and even his nephews career(he went to my college).

They put in calls to the NJPD, PSP, BATF, DA, and the local (to my parents' house) police. They received conflicting information from at least 3 of them . I was also in Amtrak station (no guns allowed), but traveling on SEPTA Regional Rail (Guns allowed); so that was a policy issue that needed to be sorted out.

I believe there to be more to the incident regarding other organizations involvement (uncalled for), and I will be looking into it further and posting.

Overall, I was treated VERY well by the Amtrak police and I'm glad I was stopped in PA rather than NJ, because I was unaware that hollow-points were completely illegal and I had 375 remington golden bullet .22lrs. I acknowledge I was an idiot for not looking into hollowpoints in NJ, but I bought the bargain box of .22lr and I couldn't imagine .22lr hollow points being illegal but they are. So Amtrak police are holding my hollow point .22lr for me until I return to PA and pick them up from the station. On the other hand they allowed me to take 5 7.62x39mm FMJs back to NJ with me b/c they're legal.

I did buy an AKM, but it's currently being held by a friend legally at his residence. My 10/22 was dented up slightly by their handling, but it's minor and I could probably take it out with an iron and damp cloth. However, I'll probably leave it there for the story and character.

I believe I'm going to get the Amtrak police a couple informational fliers because their interpretation of the law was incorrect. They said I mainly got off because I just purchased the .22 and there are provisions for moving it when it was recently purchased. However, they quoted the LTCF law regarding carrying in a city of the first class and when I told them an AK was not a firearm by PA law they looked at me like I was crazy.(((EDIT: I told them an AK and my 10/22 were not firearms, but I focused on long guns in general)))

Again they were very respectful once they figured out I wasn't a threat, and my gun was returned to me(though slightly dinged). I would have to say that while it was BS they were not to blame.

[338winmag]

if it was my gun they dented or scratched you can bet your ass they would be paying to have it repaired

[jon'76]

Good luck attempting to make LEOs pay for minor cosmetic damage when detaining you for what they perceived to be a legitimate reason/threat.

As I said I believe I could remove them as they are VERY minor and only visible when looking under a light. I'm not happy about it, but I'm not too worried either.

[MikeB0]

Originally Posted by jon'76

Overall, I was treated VERY well by the Amtrak police and I'm glad I was stopped in PA rather than NJ, because I was unaware that hollow-points were completely illegal and I had 375 remington golden bullet .22lrs. I acknowledge I was an idiot for not looking into hollowpoints in NJ, but I bought the bargain box of .22lr and I couldn't imagine .22lr hollow points being illegal but they are. So Amtrak police are holding my hollow point .22lr for me until I return to PA and pick them up from the station. On the other hand they allowed me to take 5 7.62x39mm FMJs back to NJ with me b/c they're legal.

They are wrong. Hollow point bullets aren't completely illegal in NJ. They can be bought, used at home or range and of course transported from home/range/shop etc. You don't want to get caught with if you are commiting a crime though.

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by jon'76

...I'm glad I was stopped in PA rather than NJ, because I was unaware that hollow-points were completely illegal and I had 375 remington golden bullet .22lrs. I acknowledge I was an idiot for not looking into hollowpoints in NJ, but I bought the bargain box of .22lr and I couldn't imagine .22lr hollow points being illegal but they are. So Amtrak police are holding my hollow point .22lr for me until I return to PA and pick them up from the station.

Originally Posted by knight0334

Hollow points are legal in every state.

....yes, even in New Jersey too so long as you only keep them at home(defense), or hunt/target shoot with them. You cant carry them though with one of their rare carry permits.

*bold added by me

The statute to support this claim:

2C:39-3(f) Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets



f.Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means: (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than.025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and (c) is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color.

g.Exceptions. (1) Nothing in subsection a., b., c., d., e., f., j. or k. of this section shall apply to any member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, or except as otherwise provided, to any law enforcement officer while actually on duty or traveling to or from an authorized place of duty, provided that his possession of the prohibited weapon or device has been duly authorized under the applicable laws, regulations or military or law enforcement orders. Nothing in subsection h. of this section shall apply to any law enforcement officer who is exempted from the provisions of that subsection by the Attorney General. Nothing in this section shall apply to the possession of any weapon or device by a law enforcement officer who has confiscated, seized or otherwise taken possession of said weapon or device as evidence of the commission of a crime or because he believed it to be possessed illegally by the person from whom it was taken, provided that said law enforcement officer promptly notifies his superiors of his possession of such prohibited weapon or device.

(2) a. Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, nor shall subsection f. (1) be construed to prevent any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer from possessing such ammunition at its licensed premises, provided that the seller of any such ammunition shall maintain a record of the name, age and place of residence of any purchaser who is not a licensed dealer, together with the date of sale and quantity of ammunition sold.

[jon'76]

So transporting them to NJ would be legal? I would transport them to my house for range use only.

There's another thing I need to inform Amtrak Police about. As I said I can't stress enough that they were respectful the minute they determined me not to be a threat and proper the entire time. I was never cuffed, I was given water when I asked, and they even trusted me enough to handle the firearm near the ammo in their office at the end of my stay.

[CZ40P]

I am just Curious.........and confused. Are you a resident of New Jersey?
You bought an AKM, where? In PA? When? How did the Po Pos know about the purchase? If you bought it at a dealer, was it listed in the registry that is not a registry, but a database?

I thought Amtrak was subsidized by the federal government but was not per se a Federal Agency. Kind of like the Post Office.

Aren't sniffing dogs a form of illegal search? Especially in Philly, they would be barking at every corner. Even if the station was a federal installation, if you where legal at both ends of your journey you would be covered by the federal peaceable journey law.

The whole scenario smacks of Big Brother.

[lildobe]

Originally Posted by CZ40P

Aren't sniffing dogs a form of illegal search? Especially in Philly, they would be barking at every corner.

Actually, IIRC, a dog can be used to create RAS to perform a search, or get a warrant...

I know that's how they were used in Daytona when I was a dispatcher there - the K9 unit would run the dog around a car, and if it alerted, they could get a warrant from a judge faxed to the comm center and commander's office - once it was verified they'd search the car.

[jon'76]

Yes it does, but I believe dogs are legal no matter what. I am a PA resident(student) with a family/house in NJ(parents).

I bought an AKM FTF in SPAG yesterday afternoon. I don't know(yet) how the Amtrak Police came to be aware of my purchase, but I do know they knew prior to when I bought it so I'm assuming someone overheard or something similar.

[CZ40P]

One word INFORMANT