New to forum, have a few general questions

[WJRutledge]

Hi everyone, new to forum.

I just got into the whole firearm scene in the last two months or so, and I'm already up to 3 handguns - Springfield 1911A1 GI .45 Parkerized, Ruger MkII .22lr, and. . . a Hi-Point C9 9mm(please don't laugh).

Unfortunately, I've only had a chance to shoot twice so far, once on a relative's private land (which he wouldn't like me to shoot at regularly) and once at a friend-of-a-friend's house, which you can only get ~14 yards max. away from the target. Since I'm new to the scene, I don't really know of any ranges, indoor or outdoor. I live in the Centerville/Mountville area, about 6 miles West of Lancaster. Money is kinda tight right now, so are there any ranges with a reasonable membership fee close to me? I don't really want to drive more than 20 miles in any direction. I've heard theres a free indoor range somewhere in York, but I don't know what it is.

Also, I've been trying to find a place that sells Glocks for reasonable rates. The only two gunstores I've been to so far have been Trop and Kinseys. Kinseys has decent prices, but Trop is way out there. Specifically I've been looking at buying a Glock17, which Kinseys has for $510, while Trop has them for ~$600. I've found some web sites selling NIB G17s for as low as $459. The problem with this is that every FFL I call charges at least $30 to do an out-of-state transfer. Add to that the shipping charge and I'm right around where Kinseys would have charged normally.

I believe I read on another thread in this forum that Kinseys will drop prices if you ask, but I'm not sure how willing they'd be to do that on a NIB Glock. Anyone have suggestions?

Next thing I wanted to ask is if anyone here would like to go shooting sometime. Since I'm new to the scene, I'd like to make some friends and connect more with other people that shoot. I'm in college right now, but most of my weekday afternoons are open, as well as the weekend.

Finally, along with the last point, I'd like to find someone who could perhaps guide and help me learn reloading. I've done a little reading on the topic and am sort of set on learning how to do it. Once I find a place that I can shoot at regularly, I'd like to shoot maybe 100-150 rounds a week (.45 ACP & 9mm). From what I've read on some other forums, I guess this would qualify as light shooting and a single stage press would be enough for my needs. If theres anyone I could talk with about it who knows a lot about it, that would be great.

Oh, one last thing. Does anyone know of an FFL (person or business) that does relatively cheap transfers in the Lancaster area? I think I said earlier that the lowest I could find was $30. I find this a little outrageous considering it only costs them ~$5 for the PICS fee.

Thanks for any advice/help you can give me, I appreciate it and hope to have some fun on this forum.


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Bill

[Headhunter 13]

Hello Bill. I live in the city of Lancaster. We belong to the Manheim Sportsman Association www.manheinsportsmansaasoc.com it is 15 miles from my door to there. Membership is 50.00 the first year for outdoor pistol (7, 15 and 25 yd) Riflr (50, 100 and 200 yd) and trap. I have only been shooting about a year and a half so I am no expert but would glad to go out with you one day. it cost 5.00 for a 1 day guest pass at Manheim. There is also an indoor pistol range for a couple of bucks extra but is lead only no FMJ. Would be glad to let you try out a couple of my pistols and/or the long guns. You can drop me an email through this forum.

[snuffy19608]

Hi Bill, I live in Manheim and drive to Palmyra Sportsmens Association to shoot. It's a 20-25 minute drive but they have a lot to offer. It's $55 a year- just went up this time. Check out their website.

As far as Glocks go, try Shydas in Lebanon- they're about as good as you can find for prices. Also try Backwoods Outfitters- Tom is on Ironville Pike outside Columbia and has a pretty good selection of new and used guns and accessories. When I was there last time the pistol cases were just about full.

You might want to check out Columbia Fish and Game, they're pretty close to Backwoods. I personally didn't like the place due to some attitude but the range is nice and my issues were on the rifle side- sounds like you're a handgunner.

Take care and welcome!!

[Frenchy]

WJRutledge: I don’t think many will find much to laugh at having shot only twice because you don’t belong to a gun club yet is pretty average. What is above average is owning 3 guns Springfield 1911A1 GI .45 Parkerized, Ruger MkII .22lr, and a Hi-Point C9 so quickly is above average. You say funds are pretty limited while speaking of ranges.. Then mention you want a Glock.. Not that it is a laughing matter, but here is what I personally would do at this point.

Trade the cost of a Glock for the price of a good range to practice on, use primarily the .22 to practice with a few rounds after of either 9mm or .45; don’t shoot whole boxes of 9mm or .45 till you hit the bull constantly. /22 is the most efficient leaning tool and you can spend a day at the range shooting it for under $10. Can’t say that about the other 2 can you? Practice makes perfect, and .22 is the perfect tool to practice cheaply.
As far as buying other guns, I would hold off a while, get the feel for what it is you want. Glocks are popular, so are many things. You will find that there are many other guns out there worth your time and money once you decide just what it is you want to do in shooting.

Don’t get pulled in to the Have to have scene. You will see that in gun clubs there may be steel shoots, IDPA, USPSA and other practices. You might change your Glock idea for other ideas once you see what the club you joined has to offer. Shotgun sports can be quite fun, there are also Cowboy shoots, action shooting, Home defense shoots.. Already with the 3 guns you have you might have quite a bit of shooting you did not know you could do. Adding to this a shot gun, a long range rifle, a lever, and a revolver would pretty well touch every sport out there.

Think in ways that your present guns can work for you before you go out and buy “other” guns. You will find the more guns you have, the less of some of them you will shoot! Yet the ones you will always seem to fall back on are the ones you first bought..

>45 carry is pretty respectable, most use a 9mm because it is smaller… So you already have the Carry side covered if that was a concern. >22 you can shoot at any range very cheap, very accurate. Don’t compete with the Jones’s or you will find your self in a situation where you have guns you don’t really use, mainly have them to “have” them.

As for laughing, there are people here who are just getting their first gun or just got their first gun not long ago. You’re not in the low end of purchases. Heck, im still wanting my first 1911! And I have been shooting for years! Just never happened yet, when ever there was a “great” gun out there, there where also expenses I had to meet.

I am a great fan of try before you buy, Once you join a club, you will see trying is not always as hard as one would think. Every one will let you try... ALthough some are more faithful to their guns then their woman, most will let you try their guns too


Oh and welcome to the Board!!

[WJRutledge]

Frenchy, I know I sound contradictory when it comes to funds. I've already spent much more than I should've and buying yet another seems ridiculous on retrospect. As far as practicing with the .22, I think its a great idea. My one problem, though, is that since I don't know much about firearms yet, I don't know how accurate my .22 is right now. While I'm sure its must more accurate than I am, it would be great to find someone to test it out and make sure its as good as it can be.

As far as laughing, I was talking about the fact that I own a Hi-Point Most people seem to make fun of them.

Thanks so far for the input.

[Headhunter 13]

Bill sent you an email. Saturday or Sunday com ing up may be the best for me to meet up and taske you over to Manheim

[danp]

Since everyone else here has covered pretty much everything else, I only wanted to comment on one thing.

Originally Posted by WJRutledge

I think I said earlier that the lowest I could find was $30. I find this a little outrageous considering it only costs them ~$5 for the PICS fee.

The one thing you have to keep in mind is that an FFL also has to pay for a lot of other things not directly related to the individual transfer. Rent, Utilities, Licenses, Insurance, Salaries, etc.

[WJRutledge]

danp

I realize that, however I've talked to friends in other parts of PA who know FFLs that will transfer for $10-15. I was just wondering whether or not anyone knows an FFL around here that can do it cheaper.


--
Bill

[PA Rifleman]

Originally Posted by WJRutledge

... I said earlier that the lowest I could find was $30. I find this a little outrageous considering it only costs them ~$5 for the PICS fee....
Bill

I agree with DanP.

Originally Posted by danp

...The one thing you have to keep in mind is that an FFL also has to pay for a lot of other things ...

What I have trouble understanding is how buyers can brag about plopping down hundreds, thousands for their fifth, tenth or twentieth gun but complain about an FFL that charges $5 too much.

From my experiences, it comes down to a lack of understanding or respect. The parsimonious types think only their money is important, profit is a dirty word and all dealers crooks.

Dealers have two basic choices:

• Open an operation in a residential area.
  • While cheaper, it also means their home location will be a known gun-rich area. So, buyer “A” tells “B” about the kitchen table FFL. While A nor B pose a problem, “B” tells “C” who is. So, “C” robs the house. So, the kitchen table FFL must be very selective about choosing customers. Without a specific rider on the homeowners insurance, it’s a total loss. Assuming they don’t refuse to pay once they’ve learned it’s a commercial operation.
  • It also means they could be visited by BATFE at any time for a surprise visit. This means that their home, family & pets are now exposed to the bunko squad. Guess what happens to Fido when he resists?
• Open a commercial operation. This will mean as a minimum:
  • Property purchase or rent
  • Zoning, licensing and code compliance
  • Utility bills above and beyond the homeowners accounts
  • Insurance
  • Local licenses & annual renewal fees
  • Since the cost of running a commercial operation is higher than a residential operation, the store owner will lose some paying customers to the kitchen table FFL, further weakening his operation.

My specifications for a dealer are someone that understands the product, and will provide full support when I have a problem. Someone that will deal & rectify the issue even before I know there’s a problem, and hammers the manufacturer to pay all incidental costs. I expect to pay a little more, but it’s a one-time expense that amortized over the life of the gun amounts to almost nothing.

From my experiences, it comes down to a lack of understanding or respect. The parsimonious types seem to think only their money is important, profit is a dirty word and dealers are all crooks. Lack of understanding is what’s treatable, thus this post. Dealers aren’t middlemen simply trying to jump in and get a piece of the action. Dealers are required by law, and the only variations on this theme are face-to-face transactions when both parties are PA residents, and obtaining a C&R license. And then there’s an old saw about the savings quickly forgotten, but the bitterness of low quality lasting forever. Decades ago, I dealt face-to-face with the public, and encountered customers that had a sense of entitlement to low prices that the rest of the public couldn't get. So, if it sounds like a bit of rant maybe it is.

Now there are some dealers that I'd rather not conduct business with, and for good reason. Some do charge excessive fees, others decline to accept internet orders. Some will only sell products they stock. That said, it's my responsibility to provide the dealer with the tools he/she needs to do an effective, legal job.

[WJRutledge]

I'm sorry if I came across as arrogant, I can understand and appreciate what both of you are saying. However, like any consumer, I'm just trying to find the best deal that I can.