LEO training & qualification

[reverserboy]

I've been thinking after talking to some LEO both PSP and local. I think it's too easy to become a cop in PA. It seems a fair # of cops just don't know what they're doing.

Examples:
There is a 4" blade restriction if a knife is carried.
LCTF is not valid in Philly.
A machete is a prohibited offensive weapon.
I asked 3 different cops about the legality of butterfly knives & got 3 different answers.
AND of course....A carried gun must be concealed.
A person must show ID no matter what if asked by a cop.
If OC it cannot be loaded.
Chucks are a POW. I believe there is case law to the contrary,but don't quote me.

AND our little Friday May 9 incident.

Years ago in Moosic PA I had a cop get out of his personal vehicle in street clothes to confront me about a traffic infraction. There was 2 feet of snow on the ground & I was driving a tractor with no trailer. Such a vehicle is a nightmare in snow. I don't know if this goof is still a cop but if he was any dummer they would have to water him twice a week.

Now...I'm not saying all cops are bad or incompetent but I think police training needs a serious review in PA. I think the standard should be raised.
Anyone wearing a badge needs to have a certain knowledge of the law.

My employer requires recurring training for employees in safety sensitive positions.

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by reverserboy

I've been thinking after talking to some LEO both PSP and local. I think it's too easy to become a cop in PA. It seems a fair # of cops just don't know what they're doing.

Examples:
There is a 4" blade restriction if a knife is carried.
LCTF is not valid in Philly.
A machete is a prohibited offensive weapon.
I asked 3 different cops about the legality of butterfly knives & got 3 different answers.
AND of course....A carried gun must be concealed.
A person must show ID no matter what if asked by a cop.
If OC it cannot be loaded.
Chucks are a POW. I believe there is case law to the contrary,but don't quote me.

AND our little Friday May 9 incident.

Years ago in Moosic PA I had a cop get out of his personal vehicle in street clothes to confront me about a traffic infraction. There was 2 feet of snow on the ground & I was driving a tractor with no trailer. Such a vehicle is a nightmare in snow. I don't know if this goof is still a cop but if he was any dummer they would have to water him twice a week.

Now...I'm not saying all cops are bad or incompetent but I think police training needs a serious review in PA. I think the standard should be raised.
Anyone wearing a badge needs to have a certain knowledge of the law.

My employer requires recurring training for employees in safety sensitive positions.

I know plenty of cops who have their own copy of the crimes code and actually read it. There definitely needs to be training but for "book learning" type training, it's more of a mindset. Professional cops educate themselves in addition to getting proper training. Professional cops understand the reasoning behind the laws and use their lawful discretion to perform their ultimate mission -- keeping it safe, maintaining order and "fighting" crime -- more efficiently.

Most cops are professional cops, but there are always going to be some lazy slackers who avoid any aspect of their job they don't like in every profession -- even yours no doubt. The outliers shouldn't be used to paint the whole group as deficient.

[reverserboy]

Philly.....I hear you. I can agree with what you posted. But...I feel the bar should be raised a little. The slackers you mentioned are just too numerous.

but there are always going to be some lazy slackers who avoid any aspect of their job they don't like in every profession -- even yours no doubt.

YEAH LIKE ME. But there is still a min standard.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by reverserboy

I've been thinking after talking to some LEO both PSP and local. I think it's too easy to become a cop in PA. It seems a fair # of cops just don't know what they're doing.

Examples:
There is a 4" blade restriction if a knife is carried.
LCTF is not valid in Philly.
A machete is a prohibited offensive weapon.
I asked 3 different cops about the legality of butterfly knives & got 3 different answers.
AND of course....A carried gun must be concealed.
A person must show ID no matter what if asked by a cop.
If OC it cannot be loaded.
Chucks are a POW. I believe there is case law to the contrary,but don't quote me.

AND our little Friday May 9 incident.

Now...I'm not saying all cops are bad or incompetent but I think police training needs a serious review in PA. I think the standard should be raised.
Anyone wearing a badge needs to have a certain knowledge of the law.

Not practical.

Even DA's, attorneys and judges have to research case law and statutes. To expect a street cop to know state law "inside and out" is something even lawyers can't do.

[ar15jules]

Originally Posted by reverserboy

I've been thinking after talking to some LEO both PSP and local. I think it's too easy to become a cop in PA. It seems a fair # of cops just don't know what they're doing.

Examples:
There is a 4" blade restriction if a knife is carried.
LCTF is not valid in Philly.
A machete is a prohibited offensive weapon.
I asked 3 different cops about the legality of butterfly knives & got 3 different answers.
AND of course....A carried gun must be concealed.
A person must show ID no matter what if asked by a cop.
If OC it cannot be loaded.
Chucks are a POW. I believe there is case law to the contrary,but don't quote me.

AND our little Friday May 9 incident.

Years ago in Moosic PA I had a cop get out of his personal vehicle in street clothes to confront me about a traffic infraction. There was 2 feet of snow on the ground & I was driving a tractor with no trailer. Such a vehicle is a nightmare in snow. I don't know if this goof is still a cop but if he was any dummer they would have to water him twice a week.

Now...I'm not saying all cops are bad or incompetent but I think police training needs a serious review in PA. I think the standard should be raised.
Anyone wearing a badge needs to have a certain knowledge of the law.

My employer requires recurring training for employees in safety sensitive positions.

Try getting a job as a state trooper and then tell me that again.......

[larrymeyer]

Originally Posted by TonyF

Not practical.

Even DA's, attorneys and judges have to research case law and statutes. To expect a street cop to know state law "inside and out" is something even lawyers can't do.

I disagree with you. If ignorances of the law is not a legal defense how can a police office arrest you and then say I didn't know that was part of the law. Unless your saying make an arrest and let the courts figure it out, A lot of lawsuites on that

I'm sure a lot of innocent prisoners would love that defense. I can hear lawyers all over the country saying and what law did you arrest my client under. Officer responses "I don't know".

If you choose to go into the profession any profession you have a responsibility to learn all you can about it. I don't know what you do for a living but I found out a long time again training and learning never stop I'm still learning and I'm 64. Even when I pass over I'll be learning whats on the other side Just hope the heat gets turned down a little. MY own &.02

[gf45acp]

I am going to make a generalized coment without bashing anyone. Many part time employees do not invest the time needed to really know or stay current on the policies and procedures of their part time jobs.
In some jobs that means that you have to be retrained on using the fry machine.
In police work this can cause great problems.
Other states have found this out, and some have taken steps to put a halt to it. The problem is the cost The shore communities in NJ used to use thousands of Special Officers during the summer to cover the influx of tourists. When NJ upped the training requirements to be a special officer these programms where greatly reduced, but at the cost to the communities of have to maintain larger forces of FT officers.
Look at the amount of PT officers that Dickson City has. These part timers save the town $$$ in payroll, but do they know the job as well as they should?
If you make your main paycheck driving a truck, and the uniform is just a couple of days a month, which do you pay more attention to?
This is not to excuse the "we own the streets" mentality.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by larrymeyer

I disagree with you. If ignorances of the law is not a legal defense how can a police office arrest you and then say I didn't know that was part of the law. Unless your saying make an arrest and let the courts figure it out, A lot of lawsuites on that

I'm sure a lot of innocent prisoners would love that defense. I can hear lawyers all over the country saying and what law did you arrest my client under. Officer responses "I don't know".

If you choose to go into the profession any profession you have a responsibility to learn all you can about it. I don't know what you do for a living but I found out a long time again training and learning never stop I'm still learning and I'm 64. Even when I pass over I'll be learning whats on the other side Just hope the heat gets turned down a little. MY own &.02

Larry,

Surely it behooves anyone to "be the best that they can be" but people go to college for 6 to 8 years before graduating from law school and even at that, they spend time at law firms "learning the ropes" from senior partners.

Even members of SCOTUS have law clerks to help them research case law.

Is it realistic to expect a patrol officer to know and interpret the laws he's supposed to enforce inside and out and back to front? In a perfect world ..... maybe.

[Statkowski]

The biggest problem is when their "police chief" backs them up and states they did nothing wrong, and if any mistakes were made, "Sorry 'bout that."

[Bilbo]

So what IS the legality of carrying a butterfly knife? I have one as my daily carry (And it's mostly a screwdriver and miniature hammer to me) and would rather not go to PMITAP for it.