Scenarios

[gunperson003]

Shooting the person isn't going to help if he is strapped with a bomb. Terrorists use intelligent tactics and technology, the trigger is going to be a PTR(Push to Reset), which disconnects the loop if the button is pushed until the button is released. Shooting the person will only cause the person to release the button, hence the bomb will detonate.

What would I do? If the person was located in a crowded area and the person was close, I'd try my best to fight the person and fall over the railing with him if it were on the 2nd floor. If I'm at a table, its most likely going to be in the commons area of the mall where there are TONS of people which is sometimes on the 2nd floor, this is what I'd do, sacrifice. If the person was far away from me where there is no chance in hell I could do anything, I'd run for cover, its very simple really.

Originally Posted by noofus

You are sitting in a mall food court when some guy at a table nearby stands up and starts yelling ALLAH U AKBAR. You think you might see some kind on button in his hand or maybe a wire.

Do you draw and shoot? Or is it some stupid kid being a moron? Can you shoot at a bomb vest without it detonating?

If you blow the guy away and find out it was a stupid joke and the guy didnt have a bomb vest on - what happens to you? Assume everyone around the food court is in agreement the guy was screaming ALLAH U AKBAR at the top of his lungs before you perforated them with a hollow point or two...

[noofus]

Originally Posted by gunperson003

Shooting the person isn't going to help if he is strapped with a bomb. Terrorists use intelligent tactics and technology, the trigger is going to be a PTR(Push to Reset), which disconnects the loop if the button is pushed until the button is released. Shooting the person will only cause the person to release the button, hence the bomb will detonate.

Good point- something I didnt think about when I punched in the initial scenario

[icp4life162005]

I would probably draw while backing away for cover and yelling for people to get back and to call 911.

[icp4life162005]

Originally Posted by panther76

I'm not a lawyer, but in PA you run a serious risk of being charged with having a concealed weapon for carrying and brandishing a knife, depending on the knife, regardless of whether you have a LTCF or not. In some states the permit is a CCW permit that covers other things than just a firearm, in PA it DOES NOT.

There is no law about concealed pocket knives. I have been told by many MANY different forms of LEO(state, local, wildlife/game, sheriff, constable) that you could have a machete down your pants leg(although not advisable) and that its perfectly legal AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT THREATENING ANYONE WITH IT!(or waving it about like a loon)

[TonyF]

IMHO these threads are of limited value.

Attempts at "what if" and playing out scenarios in your head are good things to do because you'll at least hopefully react with a plan.

I just want to caution everyone that when you read replies that contain suggestions, and other replies that are real life experiences, to be careful not to "adopt" a particular course of action for a specific scenario or threat.

Assaults and lethal force encounters are by their very nature dynamic and you can't hope to depend on "your" threat reacting in a specific manner.

The key is learning "how" to process information and modify your plan as the situation unfolds.

ETA: Force-on-Force and Contact Distance Defense training are the only paths to developing the necessary skills.

[panther76]

Originally Posted by icp4life162005

There is no law about concealed pocket knives. I have been told by many MANY different forms of LEO(state, local, wildlife/game, sheriff, constable) that you could have a machete down your pants leg(although not advisable) and that its perfectly legal AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT THREATENING ANYONE WITH IT!(or waving it about like a loon)

Setting aside the fact that LEOs frequently have little understanding of laws they are charged with enforcing:

Pennsylvania - Pa. C.S.A. 18.908. “… or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose”

People can and have been charged in parts of PA for having knives deemed to violate this law, in the opinion of LEO and courts. Some of the cases are from local laws and ordinances not state law. Philly, for example, has its own knife law. While the crime is only a misdemeanor, it could interfere with you’re ability to obtain or retain your LTCF.

I’m not saying how likely that is to happen, I’m just saying people need to be aware so they make decisions about the risks they take. Unless you have an AFFIRMED RIGHT to carry other concealed weapons, the way one does in a state like Florida, you are taking the same risks as when you open-carry a firearm. Obviously a 2” folder isn’t probably going to cause issues, but a 2” folder isn’t a serious option for personal defense. I carry one myself, but not as a weapon. As they say, don't bring a knife to a gun fight...

Incidentally there have been other threads discussing this at length on other places on the PFOA forums.

[fonz]

I thought this would be relevant in this thread. More of a what would happen than a what if in regards to bullet travel and penetration. On the train to work this morning I got to thinking that if someone pulled a gun and started threatening people and you had no choice but to shoot them to protect someone else, yourself or the whole train full of people, depending on the caliber, would the bullet enter the person and exit out the back of them? i do not have my LTCF yet but I own a .38 and plan on buying a .45 when my stimulus check comes in. at about ten feet, what calibers would penetrate and exit a normal sized person and keep going, possibly hitting someone else? physics and math are not my strong suit but i would think a larger caliber would be slower and more likely to not exit. this just has me thinking this morning and thought i would share.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by fonz

I thought this would be relevant in this thread. More of a what would happen than a what if in regards to bullet travel and penetration. On the train to work this morning I got to thinking that if someone pulled a gun and started threatening people and you had no choice but to shoot them to protect someone else, yourself or the whole train full of people, depending on the caliber, would the bullet enter the person and exit out the back of them?

i do not have my LTCF yet but I own a .38 and plan on buying a .45 when my stimulus check comes in. at about ten feet, what calibers would penetrate and exit a normal sized person and keep going, possibly hitting someone else?

Any caliber and any type of bullet from FMJ to JHP has the potential to exit depending on what it does or does not strike. If it hits bone it will probably be less likely to exit than if it was a peripheral hit and struck the fleshy part of the bicep.

It's not a "black and white" issue.

[fonz]

Originally Posted by TonyF

Any caliber and any type of bullet from FMJ to JHP has the potential to exit depending on what it does or does not strike. If it hits bone it will probably be less likely to exit than if it was a peripheral hit and struck the fleshy part of the bicep.

It's not a "black and white" issue.

Makes sense. On a side note, I just checked out your website and foresee myself making a trip across state for one of the one-day handgun courses.