ACT 235 certification

[Swarner793]

If I like I can carry any brand firearm as long as it is a .45. If I wanted to carry a 9mm as a back up weapon, I would need to also qualify on that piece.

Please advise where this is stated. I have heard others state this but have not found it.

Be safe.

Scott

[MSOfin]

Please advise where this is stated. I have heard others state this but have not found it.

Be safe.

Scott

This link will take you to the Act 235 document

http://www.lethalweapons.state.pa.us/lethalweapons/cwp/view.asp?a=4&q=440723&lethalweaponsNav=|

I believe this is the best answer:

Pa Act 235, Lethal Weapons Training
Section 5. Power and Duties of Commissioner. -- The
commissioner shall have the power and duty:
(1) To implement and administer or approve the minimum
courses of study and training for the program in the handling of
lethal weapons, law enforcement and protection of the rights of
citizens.

*Commissioner- the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police

Although it is not specified in the actual act, it is in the Commissioner's approved curricula that will be taught by the instructors.

[Swarner793]

This link will take you to the Act 235 document

http://www.lethalweapons.state.pa.us/lethalweapons/cwp/view.asp?a=4&q=440723&lethalweaponsNav=|

I believe this is the best answer:

Pa Act 235, Lethal Weapons Training
Section 5. Power and Duties of Commissioner. -- The
commissioner shall have the power and duty:
(1) To implement and administer or approve the minimum
courses of study and training for the program in the handling of
lethal weapons, law enforcement and protection of the rights of
citizens.

*Commissioner- the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police

Although it is not specified in the actual act, it is in the Commissioner's approved curricula that will be taught by the instructors.

I am sorry, I think we are misunderstanding each other. I have been Act 235 for 16 years and operate my own Detective and Security Agency so I am familiar with the Act.

I have heard folks state in the past, and you stated now, that one would need to qualify with each caliber that is carried. I then asked if you can show me where that is expressed in the Act. I do not recall seeing where that is in the Act.

I am not sure what the above, in quotes, is the best answer for.

Be safe.

Scott

[MSOfin]

I am sorry, I think we are misunderstanding each other. I have been Act 235 for 16 years and operate my own Detective and Security Agency so I am familiar with the Act.

I have heard folks state in the past, and you stated now, that one would need to qualify with each caliber that is carried. I then asked if you can show me where that is expressed in the Act. I do not recall seeing where that is in the Act.

I am not sure what the above, in quotes, is the best answer for.

Be safe.

Scott

I am sincerely impressed with your brief back ground. I greatly admire you for running your own business. Yes, you are correct that it is not specified in the actual act. I brought up Section 5, Sub Section 1 due to the fact that the PSP Commissioner was charged with implementing and administering the curricula. I honestly believe the answer we are looking for lies within the PSP curricula and not in the actual Act. I will get in touch with a few contacts to see if am able to clarify this. Are we getting closer to being on the same page? I really hope so!

thanks,
chris

[Swarner793]

I am sincerely impressed with your brief back ground. I greatly admire you for running your own business. Yes, you are correct that it is not specified in the actual act. I brought up Section 5, Sub Section 1 due to the fact that the PSP Commissioner was charged with implementing and administering the curricula. I honestly believe the answer we are looking for lies within the PSP curricula and not in the actual Act. I will get in touch with a few contacts to see if am able to clarify this. Are we getting closer to being on the same page? I really hope so!

thanks,
chris

I will wait to see it in writing. Otherwise, it is the aforementioned misinformation. But, yes, now I think we are getting to the same page.

Be safe.

Scott

[xx AG xx]

OK,

To clear things up,

I called up the Lethal WeaponsTraining Program (ACT 235) in Harrisburg and spoke to the person who handles application info and she stated that what ever cailber you qualified with is the one you would have to use.

So since I qualified with a 9MM, I can use any type of pistol as long as it's chambered in 9MM.

She stated that if you wanted to use a different caliber, that you would have to go back to the school and would have to re-qualify with the specfic caliber you intend to use and all the school does is keep that re-qualification info on file with the rest of your paper work. (she said that you would ONLY have to do the qualification portion of it, not the entire course).

Funny, the instructors made it seem as though once certified, you can use what ever you like.


It's funny though, the company I work for now will let me use whatever I like. I am fine with both 9MM and the .45 ACP, I just didn't have my 1911 when I first qualified in November. I guess I am going to have to go re-qualify with the .45 ACP down the road when I have some extra cash.

This kinda sucks since I wanted to switch to my 1911 for my main work pistol. (now I'm gonna have to get a 1911 chambered in 9mm, lol )

I learned something new.

I hope this clears things up for everyone. I apologize for any mis-information I may have provided earlier in the thread.

AG

[Swarner793]

OK,

To clear things up,

I called up the Lethal WeaponsTraining Program (ACT 235) in Harrisburg and spoke to the person who handles application info and she stated that what ever cailber you qualified with is the one you would have to use.

So since I qualified with a 9MM, I can use any type of pistol as long as it's chambered in 9MM.

She stated that if you wanted to use a different caliber, that you would have to go back to the school and would have to re-qualify with the specfic caliber you intend to use and all the school does is keep that re-qualification info on file with the rest of your paper work. (she said that you would ONLY have to do the qualification portion of it, not the entire course).

Funny, the instructors made it seem as though once certified, you can use what ever you like.


It's funny though, the company I work for now will let me use whatever I like. I am fine with both 9MM and the .45 ACP, I just didn't have my 1911 when I first qualified in November. I guess I am going to have to go re-qualify with the .45 ACP down the road when I have some extra cash.

This kinda sucks since I wanted to switch to my 1911 for my main work pistol. (now I'm gonna have to get a 1911 chambered in 9mm, lol )

I learned something new.

I hope this clears things up for everyone. I apologize for any mis-information I may have provided earlier in the thread.

AG

Not to beat a dead horse, but I too just got off the phone with Harrisburg (Judy Herr, Administrative Officer 1 at 717-346-7760). Herr stated that it is not written anywhere (I asked where it is written) and that it would be a liability issue if you were not certified with the certain weapon. I agreed it would be problematic, perhaps, but not in violation of the Act. She agreed.

I then asked if the information was maintained at the school where one was certified (she stated that it is kept at the school), how would LE know if I was permitted to carry said firearm. She stated they would not unless you used your firearm. I then asked how I, as an employer of 11 "certified agents", would know this if it is not "the law". She stated that I would not but insinuated that it would be common sense. I agreed, but stated that as an employer what are the legal ramifications of having an employee carry a firearm other than the one certified on. She then stated "it might be in the firearms act". I asked "the uniform firearms act". Her response was "yeah, maybe". I thanked her for her time. Check the UFA for it, I don't think I will

I guess the short of it is I rarely take legal advise from government employees Just like many LE are misinformed about firearms issues. Many use the phrase of "it is common sense". Well, let me see it in writing, sensibilities are not so common

Again, the reason that I am concerned with this is if it is not permitted than I do not want to be doing it. I have too much at stake. On the other hand, not doing it because "they" do not think it is a good idea is not a sufficient reason. I repeat, show me in writing.

Be safe.

Scott

[xx AG xx]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I too just got off the phone with Harrisburg (Judy Herr, Administrative Officer 1 at 717-346-7760). Herr stated that it is not written anywhere (I asked where it is written) and that it would be a liability issue if you were not certified with the certain weapon. I agreed it would be problematic, perhaps, but not in violation of the Act. She agreed.

I then asked if the information was maintained at the school where one was certified (she stated that it is kept at the school), how would LE know if I was permitted to carry said firearm. She stated they would not unless you used your firearm. I then asked how I, as an employer of 11 "certified agents", would know this if it is not "the law". She stated that I would not but insinuated that it would be common sense. I agreed, but stated that as an employer what are the legal ramifications of having an employee carry a firearm other than the one certified on. She then stated "it might be in the firearms act". I asked "the uniform firearms act". Her response was "yeah, maybe". I thanked her for her time. Check the UFA for it, I don't think I will

I guess the short of it is I rarely take legal advise from government employees Just like many LE are misinformed about firearms issues. Many use the phrase of "it is common sense". Well, let me see it in writing, sensibilities are not so common

Again, the reason that I am concerned with this is if it is not permitted than I do not want to be doing it. I have too much at stake. On the other hand, not doing it because "they" do not think it is a good idea is not a sufficient reason. I repeat, show me in writing.

Be safe.

Scott

You make a good point. I too read everything off the website after talking to them this morning and I could not find anything stating that the weapon used to qualify is the only thing that can be carried for work purposes.

The instructors did not make any references to being only being able to use said weapon and through all the paper work and info pamphlets I got from them it does not make any references to that.

The company I am currently with stated that I can use what ever I like, as long as it's with in the cailbers approved by there department.

I would like to see this in writing as well, if it's even available.

AG

[27hand]

I guess a question to any school would be if it would be possible to run through the pistol quals with any or all of your carry calibers.

It's 30 rounds to qual per caliber.

I would probably run 9mm (BUG) ,40 (normal carry) and perhaps .357 sig(another carry gun). This is, if would be permitted without too much additional cost.


Thanks for all the input to date.

27hand

[WA3UFN]

At our qualification we can qualify with another caliber, if we want and there is time. The way it was stated to us was that it is not mandatory to qualify for each caliber but it would just look good to have qualified in the event an issue would arise. In other words, make the lawyers happy.