Be Ready for School Shooters and School Takeovers

[Paradigm]

Agree with the training and carrying if so desired...

If you were a BG and you were thinking of entering a school, would you pause if you knew that there were about 100 faculty and staff in the building - and anywhere from 1-100% were armed and trained to kill you?

Right now, it's a guarantee that exactly 0% are armed and 0% are trained. It's a "target-rich environment" if there ever was one...

[schr8er2000]

I agree with GNBROTZ... if someone on the staff wishes to be armed, so be it. If they dont, then so be that also. And the staff is NOT required to assist in the apprehension of the perps any more than the Police are required to protect US.... all this according to, only God knows how many, court rulings.

I would hope that more people in the educational profession would become more involved with getting legislation passed to allow them to carry on the job, as well as many other industries. PRIVATE industries have also seen its share of "going postal" employees, and self protection should be made available to ALL that wish to do so.... I know I would carry at work if it were allowed.....

[adymond]

Originally Posted by Carnes

Welcome to the PAFOA.

Nice overview of how things could be handled. Unfortunately, I think that too many people in the LE community turn all problems into nails, because the only tool they have is a hammer. What I am saying is that I don't agree with the mentality that every scenario has to be dealt with only in terms of some kind of police response.

When a police officer who may or may not have mediocre training is going into an environment with hundreds of kids and potentially hundreds of shoot/no-shoot decisions that is some hairy shit, to say the least.

Why do people consider the only possible way to solve the problem is through the police?

Allow any teacher that has a LTCF to carry, and mandate that maybe something like 33% of all school staff (teachers, janitors, security, lunch-lady, admin) is required to be armed and trained specifically in response measures to school shootings/hostage situations.

No offense to any of our LEOs, but I would feel more comfortable knowing that there were armed staff members who work in the school, know the layout and know the students who had the training and additional responsibility to respond to a threat situation, rather than to have a couple police officers who may have never even been in the school and may never have been in a high-stress shoot/no-shoot situation come into that kind of environment.

And I don't want to hear, "Yeah, sounds good, but that will never happen." Because every time someone says something like that God creates another liberal kook to punish us for not standing stronger.

Great post. The bolded part is sig line worthy.

Originally Posted by schr8er2000

I agree with GNBROTZ... if someone on the staff wishes to be armed, so be it. If they dont, then so be that also. And the staff is NOT required to assist in the apprehension of the perps any more than the Police are required to protect US.... all this according to, only God knows how many, court rulings.

I would hope that more people in the educational profession would become more involved with getting legislation passed to allow them to carry on the job, as well as many other industries. PRIVATE industries have also seen its share of "going postal" employees, and self protection should be made available to ALL that wish to do so.... I know I would carry at work if it were allowed.....

I agree with this so much. Under normal circumstances we should be able to have protection for ourselves, but with layoffs and the economic concerns of today I am even more concerned than I was previously. The fact that I am a quasi HR representative makes me even more concerned.

[cgbudde]

Unfortunately schools will never allow teachers or security to be armned because they are more concerned about the liability. This is one of the reasons I home school my kids, if anyone tries to enter my house with bad intentions they will be dealt with swiftly and with extreme predjudice.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by reels18

Terrorists must pick and choose their targets carefully. If they attempt anything in the inner city schools, they may find themselves out manned and under gunned, by the students.

That's right, and this is why the Columbine-style attacks happen in suburban areas as opposed urban schools. While children shouldn't be the ones in the school carrying guns, there's something to be learned here by the school boards, don't you think?

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

I agree that anyone who is meets the legal requirements should be permitted to be armed if they wish, but I don't like the idea of mandating it for a specific number of people. The bottom line is the school staff are NOT (and should not be) responsible to deal with these types of situations. However, this should not preclude them from being armed and applying deadly force (as permitted by law) if a situation warrants it, and they elect to intervene.

Agreed, when it comes to the training and use of a weapon, no one should be forced into it if they don't want to. However, teachers who understand the responsibility and are willing to take on that responsibility, training, etc. should be encouraged and have the full support of the school board and administration. It's cheaper than having to hire security, and just as effective if not more effective, as the lack of additional financial overhead means it's likely that there's more armed adults. And more armed, responsible adults means more ability to respond to a threat.

My dad's an elementary school principal in NJ, and as far as "preparedness drills" go, they're a sham (at least, according to him). They're no different than the "duck and cover" nuclear response drills of the 50's and 60's. Those who administer the drills know that they're completely ineffective, but do it anyway to maintain the appearance of "doing something" to the parents of the children.

[larry0071]

I would like to ask my childrens school... How many teachers are legally allowed to carry firearms, how many have a legal CC permit, and how many are actually carrying in the school?

The answer to the third question... no matter how the first two were answered.... would be a (from the idiots point of view) "Well Sir, we can assure you that not one teacher or faculty member of any capacity is carrying firearms into our schools!".

But how would you get the school boards to even fathom the concept of allowing the teachers and various faculty members to carry a firearm. To them... it is the most absurd concept on earth.

I would feel a shit-ton better knowing that Larry Jr was setting 3 floors up in a school that has 75 or so pistols between the front door and his desk.... 75 chances for the bag guy to be stopped before he makes it to the point of targetting my boy.

We trust teachers to not fondle and screw our young boys and girls, we trust them to speak honestly and openly to educate our children. we entrust them to be patiant and understanding. We trust the schools to care and provide for the welfare of our children for 8 hours a day..... why are they dropping the ball on preparing to defend themselves and our children. And that defense would be from both outside invaders and internal uprisings from rogue students that may sneak a gun in. It has happened before, it could happen again today....in my boy's school.

The problem still is that "Gun's are evil" in the eyes of a HUGE amount of the public. I know it is hard for some of you to imagine... but by a large amount... WE ARE MINORITIES when considering gun cary and gun use. Most folks feel that by keeping no gun in the hone, work, or classroom.... they have created a safe place. I myself feel very much the opposite... but how do change a perception that has been impossable to change for 100 years?

The ones with open eyes know whats out there, but most folks out there are "eyes wide shut".

Larrymykidsarefucked0071

[Frenchy]

The way I see it, Schools, School administrators, and mostly the PTA will never allow this. Main reason being all the liabilities involved. Remember, even though teachers and senior people can be very loving, they can also become depressed and how would it look if the School had a postal teacher?

I remember way back in my youth, there was a school teacher we called in French “La Poule” The Hen.

She had 3 tools, one was an 18 inch ruler, the kind that never seems to break, the next was a 36” stick, actually it was a Pool queue cut down and the last was her trusty yard stick… Ok damn it; it was the size and thickness of a hockey stick! Her detention area was a small area in the corner of the room where peas where glued to the floor…
In her class, you sat at attention, in other classes the teacher would threaten to go get La Poule if you acted up! One of the other problems I had that kept me on the straight and narrow, was La poule would call my mother after school on a party line (old phones, there was one line and pending on the rings you know if it was for you or not) La Poule knew all the mothers and I believe they traded secrets about how to effectively punish a child.

Mind you back then, if you came home with swollen fingers or a welt on your arm, You covered it up, because Mom or Dad Might actually add to the punishment by smacking you around a few more times and sending you off to bed without supper… Heck, this mainly meant in my family, that Dad would hear it on Friday rather then the day it actually happened.. See the Phones where blazing after school… Mom always knew how bad or good I had been in school! I can still remember one day, the local hotel/Bar had a fight, this was 2 buildings down from the school, happened during recess and La Poule heard there was a commotion in the bar, she walked in and 2 grown men came flying out to get away from the “Crazy” lady. (I believe this is when she acquired the pool queue by the way.
Today, this would be child abuse both on the parent and teacher for even talking about it.
Then again, there where no school shootings back then, heck I was even allowed to bring in my rifle for practice after school!

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, 10 years ago, there where no “Air Marshals” on flights, today, there is no guarantee that there will be one on the flight you are on, then again, there could be 3 or 4 of them. You just cant tell because they are there, but no one knows or can Identify them.

So say this was true of schools, special teachers who also had “walker Texas Ranger” type training mixed in the La Poule undercover style of teacher.

To get this done, just as when the Air Marshals where introduced to us, you would need a Presidential signoff. But let’s just say oBAMA was to really do what he said and make a change…

So now you have a new law, “Some” teachers, teacher’s aids, Principals, secretary in the school will be armed and trained to use lethal force. Some substitute teachers also, and a group of roaming people who accomplish various tasks so that no one can be completely confident that there are or are not any armed defenders in any given school..

There could be 1 or 2, maybe 5 or 6, then again maybe none today at any given school. Who knows, seeing these people are not identified? For all you know, there could be students in High school or college…

I could see this as being an effective deterrent to the average school shooter. It might even cause a reduction in other crimes that happen every day in our local school…

Wouldn’t that be some thing, a Hen protecting our schools…


Welcome back to School!

[jpavoncello]

This is why I've started teaching my kids to "fight back" not hide in a corner and wait to die. Yes, I'd love to see teachers with LTCF be allowed to carry in the schools, but it will NEVER happen here in PA with the liberal ass-hat from Philly running the show.
A few things that I've learned about active shootings from being involved in several training sessions on the matter.
First off, local police are now being trained to respond and engage immediately in the event of an active school shooting. Here in York County, normal patrol officers make up our version of SWAT and almost all of the York municipalities have at least one officer that is not only trained on active shootings, but is also a member of the QRT team. Even some of the normally "SWAT only" gear is being carried in patrol cars now.
I'm personally more worried about the threat condition most of our schools are in. While all the area schools have electronic locks and buzz-in systems, it is impossible for a lot of the high schools to keep all the outside doors to the school secured due to students coming and going, moving from one wing of the school to another, etc.
Not only that but the buzz-in systems just aren't effective from my point of view. In my job as a news photographer, I'm at the area high schools several times a week. Walk up, push the buzzer and say "I'm J with such and such newspaper" and in I walk. In several of the local high schools I immediately have access to the halls and students, easily by-passing the office. At least at some of the elementary and middle schools, the inner doors are locked and you are forced to enter through the office, but anyone that is determined to get inside our schools will.
IMHO I think we need to spend the money to secure our schools, doing away with easy entry points and removing wooden and glass classroom doors and replacing them with steel doors that can only be opened from the inside. At least then our children would have a modest level of safety in the event of an active shooting.

[jcabin]

If we allowed our teachers with LTCF's to carry concealed while at school and made this public knowledge what would the effect be? Well there probably would NOT be any shootings in the schools that let their students/community know of this practice..

why? the answer is easy, cowards who want to kill defensless people do not attack a place where people can fight back.

Why are they cowards? because theyre killing people who cant fight back and when the police do arrive, they commit suicide.

these school shooters are weak, the very thought of having armed teachers would be an indespensible deterence against these events.

if only the liberal's would understand this logic...

[CommonHighrise]

what, nobodies said it yet? No one? "Think of the children!" There.

You folks are missing a major flaw in the whole 'teachers with pistols' concept. Over penetration is a massive risk inside the school environment.

I say give them some pump shotguns loaded with bird shot. As long as they're within 15' of the classroom door, BG is done.

Combine this with inside-opening steel doors and a decent entry point security setup, and it would be damn near impossible to get a good body count, either from a nut job or a reasonably trained/equipped terrorist.