Potential scenario the other night

[Jackal]

I was with my girlfriend, who I gotta say is nice to look at, at about 2am at the wawa off 202 the other night. We had just gotten off work and wanted to pick some stuff up for breakfast.

I see 3 jacked guys pull up. Anyhow, this one guy is flirting with my gf in front of me, clearly drunk, and about twice the size of me. He claims he just lost a cage fighting match in NJ. At this point, I am a little concerned, especially after he repeatedly wants to buy my gf a doughnut.....?

Anyhow, I avoided any confrontational remarks and we got out of there quickly because I could have seen that going badly in the parking lot.

Now my theoretical question....what if we are heading to the car and this guy decides he wants trouble, he walks towards the car. I doesn't necessarily act threatening yet he is still coming. I do not have time to get away in the car....can I fire in self defense at this point? I ask because this person had no visible weapon (other than his fighting ability) and was merely walking at me. But consider that I felt threatened for my and my gf's life.

And what good would retreating on foot be at that time....just so that he can hunt us down, after a 13 hour shift, in a more isolated part of town? Where surely no one would help us?

[dgg9]

If ever there was an ideal supporting argument for pepper spray, this is it. ASP is another option.

[headcase]

I have seen a trend here lately of people asking when is it ok to shoot someone. Is it ok when feel scared that my neighbor is going to punch me? Is it ok when the big guys down the hall keeps threatening to kick my ass and walks toward me in a menacing fashion? Is it ok when I see a guy bitch slapping a woman? Some of these people may need to rethink their decision to carry a firearm with no training or understanding of the responsibility attached to doing so.

Anyone who has read just about anything I have ever posted here, should know that I am rabid in encouraging and defending the exercise of the rights the 2nd Amendment guarantees us. What the 2nd Amendment doesn't do, is guarantee you the right to recklessly use deadly force out of unreasonable fear, or allow you to sit around just itching to tear holes in someone. Being in fear of losing your life and being in fear of taking an ass beating are two completely different things, or at least they should be, to a reasonable person.

Your firearm is a deadly weapon. D-E-A-D-L-Y Weapon. That means if you employ it in a manner consistent with it's design and intended use, you are more than likely to kill whatever you use it against. Not hurt. Not injure. Not make feel bad. Kill. As in dead, no longer alive. There are certainly situations that call for employing a weapon with this capability, that occur on a daily basis all over the world, but everyday pissing contests and simple altercations are not included in that list.

I do not, in any way, shape, or form, advocate restricting your right to carry a firearm. I do, though, strongly suggest, that if you are going to do so, you take a course of some kind in recognizing when you need to employ the use of deadly force. If you are an easily intimidated person, you may feel that carrying a firearm is an equalizer. It is NOT. It is stacking the deck against being pushed around. It does not make you equal to a bigger guy, it makes you able to kill the bigger guy. Not beat him in a fight, kill him. If you are not able to defend yourself against common everyday minor threats, a FIREARM IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM.

Get some non lethal personal protection devices. A taser. Some pepper spray. A telescoping metal rod. Buy a German shepard. Take some training in self defense. A firearm is a weapon of last resort, don't ever lose sight of that fact. Even well trained, very situationally aware people carry non lethal devices, because, well, they have the training and understanding to realize that not every confrontation needs to end with someone dead.

Specifically to the OP, invest in some good martial arts classes and buy some good quality pepper spray. Big drunk college kids are always going to be kicking sand in the face of smaller guys, but unless they take it from needing an ass whooping, to needing to die, use situationally appropriate responses.

[SteveXD]

Originally Posted by headcase

I have seen a trend here lately of people asking when is it ok to shoot someone. Is it ok when feel scared that my neighbor is going to punch me? Is it ok when the big guys down the hall keeps threatening to kick my ass and walks toward me in a menacing fashion? Is it ok when I see a guy bitch slapping a woman? Some of these people may need to rethink their decision to carry a firearm with no training or understanding of the responsibility attached to doing so.

Anyone who has read just about anything I have ever posted here, should know that I am rabid in encouraging and defending the exorcise of the rights the 2nd Amendment guarantees us. What the 2nd Amendment doesn't do, is guarantee you the right to recklessly use deadly force out of unreasonable fear, or allow you to sit around just itching to tear holes in someone. Being in fear of losing your life and being in fear of taking an ass beating are two completely different things, or at least they should be, to a reasonable person.

Your firearm is a deadly weapon. D-E-A-D-L-Y Weapon. That means if you employ it in a manner consistent with it's design and intended use, you are more than likely to kill whatever you use it against. Not hurt. Not injure. Not make feel bad. Kill. As in dead, no longer alive. There are certainly situations that call for employing a weapon with this capability, that occur on a daily basis all over the world, but everyday pissing contests and simple altercations are not included in that list.

I do not, in any way, shape, or form, advocate restricting your right to carry a firearm. I do, though, strongly suggest, that if you are going to do so, you take a course of some kind in recognizing when you need to employ the use of deadly force. If you are an easily intimidated person, you may feel that carrying a firearm is an equalizer. It is NOT. It is stacking the deck against being pushed around. It does not make you equal to a bigger guy, it makes you able to kill the bigger guy. Not beat him in a fight, kill him. If you are not able to defend yourself against common everyday minor threats, a FIREARM IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM.

Get some non lethal personal protection devices. A taser. Some pepper spray. A telescoping metal rod. Buy a German shepard. Take some training in self defense. A firearm is a weapon of last resort, don't ever lose sight of that fact. Even well trained, very situationally aware people carry non lethal devices, because, well, they have the training and understanding to realize that not every confrontation needs to end with someone dead.

Specifically to the OP, invest in some good martial arts classes and buy some good quality pepper spray. Big drunk college kids are always going to be kicking sand in the face of smaller guys, but unless they take it from needing an ass whooping, to needing to die, use situationally appropriate responses.

Yeah what he said Nice Points Headcase... Getting an ass kickin' by some drunk asshole doesn't really justify shooting some one.. although it's wrong. You already won! You have a gf that they can't have That's the way that I look at things...

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by headcase

II am rabid in encouraging and defending the exorcise of the rights the 2nd Amendment guarantees us.

Isn't that was Mayor Nutter is doing?

[/threadjack]

[Pa. Patriot]

Damn...

[headcase]

Originally Posted by dgg9

Isn't that was Mayor Nutter is doing?

[/threadjack]

Quite right, sorry, I was on a tear.............Fixed

[pullpin]

Headcase you should repost this in the other thread where the guy approched the OP in the Wal Mart parking lot.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by pullpin

Headcase you should repost this in the other thread where the guy approched the OP in the Wal Mart parking lot.

Hell, why noy just sticky it???

I think the two situations were different, and the argument on his actions also are a bit different. But, hey, be my guest and feel free to post this where ever you like, I love attention

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by headcase

I have seen a trend here lately of people asking when is it ok to shoot someone. Is it ok when feel scared that my neighbor is going to punch me? Is it ok when the big guys down the hall keeps threatening to kick my ass and walks toward me in a menacing fashion? Is it ok when I see a guy bitch slapping a woman? Some of these people may need to rethink their decision to carry a firearm with no training or understanding of the responsibility attached to doing so.

Anyone who has read just about anything I have ever posted here, should know that I am rabid in encouraging and defending the exercise of the rights the 2nd Amendment guarantees us. What the 2nd Amendment doesn't do, is guarantee you the right to recklessly use deadly force out of unreasonable fear, or allow you to sit around just itching to tear holes in someone. Being in fear of losing your life and being in fear of taking an ass beating are two completely different things, or at least they should be, to a reasonable person.

Your firearm is a deadly weapon. D-E-A-D-L-Y Weapon. That means if you employ it in a manner consistent with it's design and intended use, you are more than likely to kill whatever you use it against. Not hurt. Not injure. Not make feel bad. Kill. As in dead, no longer alive. There are certainly situations that call for employing a weapon with this capability, that occur on a daily basis all over the world, but everyday pissing contests and simple altercations are not included in that list.

I do not, in any way, shape, or form, advocate restricting your right to carry a firearm. I do, though, strongly suggest, that if you are going to do so, you take a course of some kind in recognizing when you need to employ the use of deadly force. If you are an easily intimidated person, you may feel that carrying a firearm is an equalizer. It is NOT. It is stacking the deck against being pushed around. It does not make you equal to a bigger guy, it makes you able to kill the bigger guy. Not beat him in a fight, kill him. If you are not able to defend yourself against common everyday minor threats, a FIREARM IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM.

Get some non lethal personal protection devices. A taser. Some pepper spray. A telescoping metal rod. Buy a German shepard. Take some training in self defense. A firearm is a weapon of last resort, don't ever lose sight of that fact. Even well trained, very situationally aware people carry non lethal devices, because, well, they have the training and understanding to realize that not every confrontation needs to end with someone dead.

Specifically to the OP, invest in some good martial arts classes and buy some good quality pepper spray. Big drunk college kids are always going to be kicking sand in the face of smaller guys, but unless they take it from needing an ass whooping, to needing to die, use situationally appropriate responses.

At the time, I was unarmed because work would not allow for it. Mace was available. (not the club with the spikes on it Anyhow. This is 2am, no one around, dimly lit parking lot without cars, 70 year old wawa attendent.

I know my fighting limitations and it seems like this guy would have had an edge over me, fist to fist. This is why I feel like this is an essential topic to discuss, in theory, because this person had no clearly visible and quantifiable weapon to display.

So assuming I had a pistol, and no other non-lethal deterrents, I need to fight it fist to fist? Please correct if I misinterpreted your words.

I see the law to mention a worrying for ones life.....well sometimes fights don't end with two drunks sitting together with black eyes saying lets do it again next friday, but someone with serious injury.

And please everyone, no need to state the obvious....this is for theoretical and not practical consideration only.