Drag the body INSIDE

[Pro2A]

Ok lets say I'm getting ready to head to the store. I'm locking up the house when out from behind a bush in the yard jumps a crazy man with a knife running towards me. I turn around, draw and shoot him... perfectly legal. Or is it?

I've always been told when you shoot in a situation like this, make sure its in the house. How do police distinguish between going outside to shoot a would be intruder and going outside to leave, getting ambushed and defending yourself? How does shooting a guy who pops out from behind a bush while your outside, taking the trash out, leaving, or planting flowers differ from going outside to investigate a noise or unusual person and shooting in self defense?

EDIT: Actually the "drag the body INSIDE" thread title was more of a joke then anything I think people have misunderstood my question. The question I am asking is why would you get in trouble for going outside to investigate a noise, the man attacking you and you defensivly shooting as opposed to if someone came out from behind a bush to attack you while you were already outside.

[ungawa]

Drag the body INSIDE

I actually had cops tell me that at my house when I was a kid. Posting it as a relevant curiosity, I am certainly not recommending it.

[Lucas]

Do NOT move the body. Do NOT alter the scene. No reason to.
There will be an investigation, and if you drag a body that is bleeding into your house there will be a trail. This will probably haunt you in court.
Actually, our goal in defense of ourselves is not to create a "body", simply to get whomever it is that put you in fear of your life to stop whatever it was they were doing.

[gnbrotz]

The scenarios you outlined are exactly why we need to have HB641 become law.

Commonly referred to as the 'Castle Doctrine' (improperly IMO) this legislation would remove the duty for you to retreat when you are anywhere you are legally permitted to be. Currently, this protection only applies when you are INSIDE your home or business. Not taking out the trash, planting flowers outside or going outside to 'investigate a noise'.

If you do find yourself in such a situation, I assure you that disturbing the scene will not help you in court.

[Punisher]

don't touch it........ dead men do tell tales in this day and age..........

[Pro2A]

Actually the "drag the body INSIDE" thread title was more of a joke then anything I think people have misunderstood my question. The question I am asking is why would you get in trouble for going outside to investigate a noise, the man attacking you and you defensivly shooting as opposed to if someone came out from behind a bush to attack you while you were already outside.

[G.AlanFink]

Originally Posted by Lucas

Do NOT move the body. Do NOT alter the scene. No reason to.
There will be an investigation, and if you drag a body that is bleeding into your house there will be a trail. This will probably haunt you in court.

Absolutely correct. Your response is justified (acceptable force) and you didn't have time to rationalize based on the attack scenario.

I think this is the quote you must know: "I was in fear of my life and did not know the intention of my attacker" NOR did you have time to ask.

[idpasharpshooter]

i BELIEVE pa law has an exception to the effect of - if you believe retreating to your house will not do any good or more harm than good then you don't have to.

[gnbrotz]

Title 18, §505. Use of Force in Self-Protection.

(a) Use of force justifiable for protection of the person.—The use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.

(b) Limitations on justifying necessity for use of force. —

(1) The use of force is not justifiable under this section:

(i) to resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, although the arrest is unlawful; or

(ii) to resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:

(A) the actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest;

(B) the actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recaption justified by section 507 of this title(relating to use of force for the protection of property); or

(C) the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily injury.

(2) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat; nor is it justifiable if:

(i) the actor, with the intent of causing death or serious bodily injury, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or

(ii) the actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

(A) the actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; and

(B) a public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.

(3) Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

(c) Use of confinement as protective force. — The justification afforded by this section extends to the use of confinement as protective force only if the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the confinement as soon as he knows that he safely can, unless the person confined has been arrested on a charge of crime.

The point of contention will be whether or not you could have retreated "with complete safety" if you are not inside of your home or business.

[headcase]

How far away was the bush? Did you have time to get back in the house? While I think you should be able to shoot someone who is engaged in attacking you with a weapon of any sort, you being on your steps, having time to turn, draw and fire, will make some people think you had time to go back through your door.